Newbie 705 - Oh God, My Newbies! (GAME OVER)

[The World No.1 Noob]

/confirm Hi guys, my second time play, though my first time was like 6 months ago

[The World No.1 Noob]

aaalallalalalala

??? at Mango's dp

vote:

mango

[The World No.1 Noob]

display picture lol

[The World No.1 Noob]

hey guys really really sorry for not posting, I'm at mate's house at the moment, my comp is completely dead, hardware problem I think. Its at a shop now, sry about inactivity, I hope I'll get it back soon.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Hi guys, I've gotten my computer back, I'll catch up and give my opinion by the end of tomorrow.

[The World No.1 Noob]

OK, I've caught up, baiscly as far as I can tell:

1. Fleur slipped up with her unvoting of a person she never voted for, BUT to me

I have already apologised for unvoting the person I haven't even voted on. It was my mistake, because when looking at the official vote count I saw my name in the brackets. And I am sorry for that.

this at the moment seems quite sincere,

2. Someone asked the newbie's if this was there first game, this is my second game though my first was like 6 months ago or something, here's the first game I played so people can know my style, and how I'm probably going to think cause of the IC's I've had in my first game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7891

3.

Okay, I explain this in every newbie game, but there are people who still don't get it.

Mango has stopped posting. Mango is not lurking. There is a difference. You didn't use the word "lurking" but you strongly implied it.

Mango has not posted in any games or threads at all since her last post here. That means she probably hasn't had time to log on because she's busy in real life - which could happen for dozens of reasons. For all we know, she might have figured out that Mafia wasn't for her and quit. Who knows?

So, no, it does not make Mango more suspicious that she hasn't answered the accusations. If she posted since she's been accused and ignored the accusations, it would be scummy. If she was posting in other threads and ignoring this one, that would be scummy. But simply not posting is a null-tell.

Just because some people don't have time to log on every ten minutes like you seem to doesn't mean they are lurking or ignoring the game. Things move slowly. Show some patience.

Some very good points but, I have a problem seeing how fleur was implying mango was lurking in the first place, please explain, mixing a good point with a bad point can confuse if you're not carefull to be extremely critical, widely used propaganda technique, its like when the banks loan money to each other with mixed good and bad debt.

4. This is really vague, and probably nothing but I'll just push it out there for you ICs to think about, chomp seems a bit too sincere, asking exactly all the most likely questions a noob would ask but in saying that I was like that in my first game and everyone accused me of being a (forgot the word, an IC who creates a new account and pretends to be noob) untill the cop comfirmed I was ino.

5. So baisicly we're waiting for Mango to say something about her I'll withdraw vote if if life can defend himself, when he's got not accusation to defend against. This would have to me just been a normal mistake (women...you know how they are, espically the kind with a pretty boy like that on her avatar) but her not saying anything when she's brought into the limelight opens the doors to the chance that she's waiting for this to blow over, and yes now I AM implying that she's lurking

[The World No.1 Noob]

wow...ok, she wasn't posting that much, but that was one hasty replacement, this is only my second game so I can't say that for sure...how long do we normally wait before someone gets replaced?

Actually your right! I really haven't said any thing, but as I go through the posts catching up i noticed that you haven't said anything in reference to what's going on either. So I find that rather odd that you would jump on me when you haven't contributed much either. FOS JordanA24. (sorry I'm picking on you Laughing )

in effect you can say that by telling you to say something he's scum hunting, as he probably hasn't found anything to go on except for you not supplying anything

O, and I realised I might sound a bit hipocritical on the thing about Mango not havn't posted for a few day myself, but I had a liget reason.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I don't...that's why I think it was a bit hasty...

[The World No.1 Noob]

Also, a quick question for anyone who wishes to answer;

dreambri23 wrote:
JordanA24 wrote:
dreambri (sorry, it almost looks as if I'm picking on you, lol), you haven't really said a lot about what's going on, have you any opinions?

Actually your right! I really haven't said any thing, but as I go through the posts catching up i noticed that you haven't said anything in reference to what's going on either. So I find that rather odd that you would jump on me when you haven't contributed much either. FOS JordanA24. (sorry I'm picking on you Laughing )


Who do you think is at more fault in this passage of play - The accuser, for accusing someone of something they are equally guilty for - or the accusee for retaliating, using the same reasoning?

like I said before, I'd say the accusee because in effect the accuser probably hasn't found anything from the little info we have so far and is scum hunting by calling out players to give more reponse. But all in all, nobody're really accusing anyone one of anything, this post is like a hey guys lets pick it up, you have said anything what do you think?

I actually thought that dreambri's vote was a joke. But then I thought- Jordan actually did pick on her, BUT there is a big difference- he did not considered her scummy, and she did considered him. Dreambri, could you please explain your choice? As we have noticed so far not many users actually have been engaged in the game that much so what is scummy about Jordan not being involved and how does it differ from the other? Should we consider you scummy as well for the same reason you thought of him?

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think anyone's accusing anyone of being scum at the moment.

[The World No.1 Noob]

So, if Spolium is not scum, why are you voting for him?

Because I've had my random vote on him since the beginning of the game, never bothered to unvote, not like he's in any danger or anything. But if it makes you happy

unvote: Spolium[b\]

The World No.1 Noob - Do you expect that females would approach mafia differently to males? What differences would you expect to see?

lol, that post on mango was a joke about her avatar, I'm not sure if there are any differences. But in saying that, I admit that when I have no other information to go off, I work from prejudist information. Some POSSIBLE differences between males and females would be: girls a a bit more gentle than us guys, so you don't normally get 'wtf, why the fk did you vote for ****, you fkn idiot, couldn't you see that he fkn blah blah blah...etc etc' and stuff like that from a girl, and I find girls are more easily manipulated, have a bit more difficulty indentifying why they think someone is scum or innocent hence a bit more trouble expressing to the rest of the town. But the fact that these girls are on a computer playing mafia and not in the mall trying out dresses or even playing maple story and neopets sorta screws up about 3/4 of all my sexist prejudist ideas. So baislcy I've just made all you guys read a pointless rant.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Okay, I'm done reading. I'm not ready to vote anyone right now, but I have the following two questions for everyone to answer, please:
1) What is your mafia experience prior to this - how much have you played, and where?
2) Do you prefer playing as town or mafia?

Well, I've answered 1 like twice already. For 2...well havn't been scum yet so don't know but I'd imagine each being equally as fun as the other. Being scum would still be like a puzzle. I think chess is a better analogy, town is like playing by taking down the opponent's pieces and win by might, scum is like poking around and see where you can get the checkmate.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I think his posts are totally scummy. First of all, most of his first posts were just about this being his only second or first game (don't remember), and after that he was quiet for a few days, so page 2 and 3 new posts appear this time about how his computer was broken. Although he did write some larger post if you read them, you'll notice that there is actually no content in them. He summarizes rather than analyses the situation. Is this helpful? Well, not at all. The fact that his posts are big might make us think that he actually is looking for a scum, but I can see nowhere the actual point that should be made at this stage of the game. So this way, on page 4 he is still writing about his random vote, which is just so unhelpful but at the same this it redirects our attention from him, because he is not lurking. I think he might be a scum.

Righta...

Lets break my defense down:

1. "I think his posts are totally scummy" - nothing to defend against
2. "First of all, most of his first posts were just about this being his only second or first game (don't remember)" - Second game, if you read the thread I was replying to other players questions, I replied each time someone asked me about my experience, never unnessasaryily overmentioned it once.
3. "and after that he was quiet for a few days, so page 2 and 3 new posts appear this time about how his computer was broken." - nothing to defend against
4. "Although he did write some larger post if you read them, you'll notice that there is actually no content in them. He summarizes rather than analyses the situation." - well I was away for 3 days so summarizing is good for the town and shows I have spent my time looking at the thread, and no analysis? hello? post 65, points 3,4 and 5 all have analysis, post 72 analysis, post 79 analysis
5. "Is this helpful? Well, not at all. The fact that his posts are big might make us think that he actually is looking for a scum," - this argument is based on your previous and because it wasn't true this argument also holds no effect. And my posts aren't "big", 'big' posts take up half the page.
6. "but I can see nowhere the actual point that should be made at this stage of the game." - what points should be made at this stage of the game?
7. "So this way, on page 4 he is still writing about his random vote," - yes...I was answering someone's questions about if I think girls and guys play differently
8. " which is just so unhelpful but at the same this it redirects our attention from him, because he is not lurking. I think he might be a scum." - again this is founded on ur previous argument, and even if your previous argument is right how does this direct attention away from me?

Your accusations/evidence have been nit picked together to suit your conclusion, I think you're trying to buddy Rishi, FOS: fleurdelys

[The World No.1 Noob]

Well, I still claim that my arguments are pretty reasonable, but I only want to answer to your 6tth point- other people somehow managed to make some arguments throughout the game, look at Hoopla's posts.
As for your suspicion- WHY do you think I am buddying with Rishi?

well, I don't see too much difference between his posts and mine, except maybe he's asked more questions and helped the noobs out more, hence that's why he's in as IC and I'm in as noob.
why do I think you're trying to buddy rishni? because the evidence you've come up with against me seems like its picked to suit your conclusion (evidence should be used to formulate a conclusion), which means you must have decided first that you're going to vote for me, and the only reason I can see someone would want to do that is if their scum. As to why pick me, I can see two reasons, A. you think I'm a push over and buckle underpressure and do something stupid, B. you want to buddy rishi because he's the only IC that had a post (before he left) that suggests suspicion of me, if this is the case I think you've mistaken his aggressive playing style for suspicion of me. For formalities sake lets include reasons C and D, C. you're an idiot, D. none of the above.

o wait a minute,

look at Hoopla's posts.

I see buddying of hoopla as well now, that's 2 ICs

unvote:Spolium vote:fleurdelys

[b/]

[The World No.1 Noob]

damit...I can never get the bold right

unvote:Spolium vote:fleurdelys

[The World No.1 Noob]

I didn't say you were an idiot, C and D was added so the 4 possibilities add up to 100% no matter what. Also skipping a step and cry I called you an idiot your trying to draw sympathy from everyone, that's propanda to the max. Normally if you want to give example of good play refer to specific posts, not just a person.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I think what you say in post 109 is basically what you do yourself.

What???, who am I trying to buddy with?, you're the one that started the accusations so I can't be the one pressureing you,

i am not trying to gain sympathy

That's what they all say

and if you look at your post you'll notice that the only possibilities i have is a) to be wrong, b) i am an idiot.

no, if you look at my posts, I'm saying your either trying to pressure me to do something stupid or buddying with the ICs. If I happen to be wrong then I reserve the right to either say C: you're an idiot or D: none of the above depending on the situation

i agree you might not be a scum, but for me you are acting in the scummiest way comparing to other users, and basically that is why i am voting. the question is, are you voting on me because i am voting on you?

Sounds bad the way you put it, but essentialy yes because my suspicions arise from your bogus accusations and the way its put together that gains a certain effect.

and also, you haven't asked the question i asked you previously- what would my point in buddying with rishi?

What would your poing in buddying with Rishni be??? o well lets see, if scum succesfully buddy's with someone then that someone will obviously think that that person isn't scum...do I really have to explain this concept?

TO THE REST OF THE TOWN:

1. Opinions on our debate please
2. Just because we're having a war on each other doesn't give you guys the right to stay quiet, this is the perfect cover for a. the scum if fleur isn't scum, or b. one of the scum if fleur is. Talk...honestly feels like all of you a trying to lurk

[The World No.1 Noob]

Notice that I wrote after Rishi left, so i don't see sense in buddying with a person who's not playing

he might not be here right now but he said he would be back on monday and you launched your attacks on sunday, how convient would it be for you if he just gets back and hey hey someone's buddying to him. Not saying he'd fall for it though. I'd say I'm averagely aggressive, aggressiveness is no scum indicator.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Heh, well I'm not really sure if the central points of this debate are really worth half a page of analyzing

It isn't, as you said at this point in the game there really isn't enough information to know who the scum is, which is why fleur's attack surprised me. Taking a step back I don't really think scum would bring themselves so much attention by accusing someone. My vote probably was a bit rash (very unlike me, if you see my previous game).

unvote: fleurdelys

but in saying that I disagree with your buddying concept, buddying is always when scum trys to gain the confidence of an innoceant. The other scenearios :

why does a scum need to buddy with the other scum in order to guide them?

scum trying to frame townie is just a reverse hook of buddying, they try and have the rest of the towin pick up that they've buddied so if they're lynched they could take someone down with them. But this wouldn't really work that well because like my previous point I don't see a reason why a scum would have to buddy with the other scum, it even gives more assurance that the person left is innoceant to me, but you could say that the scum know's I'll think that way and buddy his partner but because I've thought of that too he can do the opposite again which means its an unconcludible argument so it could happen either way and therefore there was no point in doing such a trick in the first place. (tell me if you know what I mean I can barely understand this myself when I read over it).

townie agreeing with other townies isn't buddying...because they can do this in 2 cases: 1. they actually do agree with the other townie (and in this case there's no problem), 2. they don't actually agree but they're just saying they agree - why would a townie do this in the first place, extremely anti-town and doesn't help with scum hunting at all. Might mean they survive for longer but unhelpfull in terms of winning the game.

[The World No.1 Noob]

ok, hmmm... i don't see the case, noob. rishi does not seem aggressive in this post, he does not even find you suspicious officially. where is the buddying then?

well, that's what I'd think of that post too, but its feasible to think that you made a mistake in thinking that it was aggressive. but now you show that you know its not...I really can't think of a reason why you'd put together a totally screwed argument against me.

[The World No.1 Noob]

it was you who said that rishi was aggressive towards you.

yea because I assumed you made a mistake as it was the only explanation I can think of

i still don't see my argument against you as "totally screwed". i don't know if you're a scum. for me you're just the most ambiguous one.

well, your arguments are screwed if you can't use it to prove/suggest that someone is scum, why am i the most ambiguous one?

[The World No.1 Noob]

mod, vote count isn't right, I unvoted

Fixed. -OGML

[The World No.1 Noob]

It feels like his arguments against fleurdelys are completely made up of OMGUS.

y?

[The World No.1 Noob]

mrfixij, well you're correct in pointing out that some posts don't directly link to scum hunting I think saying that all irrelvant posts should be left out of the game is a little overboard, (this is a GAME), random questions generate discussion, that was what we needed.

Not sure what you're getting at. I think you're asking "Why?" Well, OMGUS = Oh My God, You Suck. It occurs when you're attacking someone solely because they were attacking you earlier.

o comeon, who doesn't understand that y = why????? And I've already explained why I voted for feurdelys before, it wasn't because he/she was voting for me, it was because of the reasons he/she used to vote for me.

And I'd like to say it again- at no point I speak to Rishi or even talk about him before being accused of buddying with him. Rishi, what makes you think that I'm buddying with You?

Havn't I already answered this? I assumed you made a mistake and thought rishi was uber suspicious of me and hence tried to buddy with him by attacking me because it is the only feasible explanation I could come up with for you attacking me for baisicly no reason at all

I need to think about the case that has been just raised. I had the same feeling as you guys when Spolium was asking Jordan his question; the point is Spolium never answered any of the question himself, and never even commented on them, so we cannot see why it was important for him to ask those.

riiiigggight...you had a feeling but never mentioned it untill someone else mentions it...ummm, I think I'm going to revote for you and stick to my buddy theory.

vote: fleurdelys

[The World No.1 Noob]

shit, no

unvote: fleurdelys

[The World No.1 Noob]

sry for triple post, just explaining myself, I almost hammered, I sort wrote it went away came back and pressessed submit, mod must have given vote count sometime withing that time, but I think its time for fleurdelys to claim

[The World No.1 Noob]

o ok,

vote: fleurdelys

For future reference, if you had hammered, your unvote wouldn't have made a difference (as per the second rule).

o reli? so as soon as the 5th vote is cast doesn't matter if someone unvoted its a hammer?

[The World No.1 Noob]

hmmm, well isn't it coincidental that now the pressure is on fleur her usual high level's of activity has disappeared?

[The World No.1 Noob]

I especially don't think that 3.5 votes is the time to claim

why is it 3.5?

[The World No.1 Noob]

i still believe my arguments on world n 1 noob were good enough to vote

why?

i agree with a claim before hammer

yes, and your one vote away from it

but bandwaggon is always scummy for me

Every game has bandwagons, you can't lynch someone without one, its true that the next day the bandwagon can be looked at in great detail for info. on scum but not all bandwagon's are scummy.

being on it only because everybody else is. it is hard to prove then who has real reasons to vote and who is hiding behind somebody's else's opinion.

well, that's why each of the players on the bandwagon has given the analysis and reasoning.

why is agreeing with somebody scummy?

it isn't, but when you go against what you've said before, hence contradict yourself, then it becomes scummy

[The World No.1 Noob]

this isn't really that relavent (but still sort of is mrfixij), about the two random votes on LLS, to me there is nothing wrong with having two random votes on one person, that's why they're RANDOM if all the votes are spread out evenly across everyone all the time then it becomes selective.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Yep; it's because fleur's post 103 was the first real argument made against someone after we came out of the random stage, and I don't think a scum player would be so likely to take this initiative.

I agree that it does seem odd for scum to stick his/her head out and make the first accussation but do you agree with the content in post 103?

[The World No.1 Noob]

My read on noob (as promised) is somewhat strange. I don't agree with fleur's early comment about him disguising fluff in long posts and thought he provided a lot of insight into what he's like. He seemed reasonable and very townie up until he made the fleur-rishi buddy case, which strikes me as coming out of nowhere. His thinking process is pretty rational, logical, and non-emotional otherwise, which makes that particularly strange. Logic is hard to maintain when you're really starting from your conclusion, as is the case with scum. Or it could just be logic gone awry with very little to base it on, as is the case with Day 1, particularly early on. Still, I'm not sure why he'd start down the logic path without much to work with, making me suspicious.

well here's the thing, if we think of thinking processes as a multipule choice question in an exam (excep with a hell of a lot more options to choose from), sometimes you can know the answer from you knowledge or from working out a particular equation but sometimes you'll come to lapses in your knowledge or a part of an equation that you can't solve, but because its a multichoice exam you can eliminate options that seem less valid and skip logic stepping blocks that can't be found, with fleur's case I tryed to think of every possible motive fleur could have and buddying with rishi came out as most likely. It required many leaps in assumptions like fleur had mistaken rishi's general comments on me for accusations and rishi's not scum himself. For now I still think its the largest sector on the pie graph, sure it probably takes up way less than 50% but it's still the largest proportion. If anybody else can come up with a better explanation for fleur's accusations then share it.

(tell me if this doesn't make sense, my long stream of thought paragraphs often are hard to understand)

[The World No.1 Noob]

hmmm, can you think of any conclusions that involve fleur being town that expain why she accussed me with those random reasons? yes starting off with a conclusion and building evidence for it is tunnel visioning if your town or plain misguiding if your scum, but I don't think it's still tunnel visioning if I think of all the possible conclusions and pick the one most supported by the evidence

[The World No.1 Noob]

No, I think your approach and method makes perfect sense, as I thought it did before. My problem is that I thought you were leaving out some possibilities and discounting others before you reached a point where you had enough information to legitimately whittle down the number of possibilities to something manageable.

a yes, I admit that's always a problem, so if you or anyone here can see any possibilties that I could have missed out I'd be happy to step down and admit my mistake, its how modern day science works, peer review process.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Couldn't get online yesterday because of the server problems.

so it was for everyone then? not just me? this has happened before...

[The World No.1 Noob]

well, nothing's really going, what really is halting the game is fleur's total disappearence

[The World No.1 Noob]

and the problem is, its not like her replacement can easily explain her actions, only she knows what was going on in her head at the time

[The World No.1 Noob]

the first time being an INCREDIBLY obvious countervote.

As I've said, it was a "countervote" if you like, but as long as I've got evidence (which I provided) that was relevent to prove that I wasn't 'voting for her cos she voted for me', the vote stands completly illgitimate.

he's butthurt and thinks she's still suspicious of him

so you're suggesting I'm a retard who's townie but wants to ellimanate another townie just because I think she might be suspicous of me, how would that at all make any sense? its like you're sacraficing your king to save a pawn, guys from my previous posts do I really sound like the person that would do that?

The reason I think Newb isn't genuine with his reason to vote is that he recycles in not so many words the same logic that Spoilum used.

sry but because of all this inactivity I really don't remember much, I can't find anywhere where I repeated Spoilum used, as far as I can remember my thoughts are original.

In retrospect, Spoilum caught Fleur in a blatant lie. This doesn't mean that spoilum is any more inno, it means that he's paying attention. I would like Fleur to address this lie, if she would.

What's this blatant lie refering to? (sry really don't remember, you probably have it off the top of your head so it will save the group time if you just gave the link or summarised it)

As far as spoilum goes, my feelings on him are more based on my own playstyle as scum. In the earlygame where he emerges, he tries to shift the focus of the game towards a mafia theory perspective (in his list of questions which I have already discussed). Between that and loading questions or asking irrelevant information, it reeks of pre-planning lynches and forcing suspicion, which is scummy.

and hasn't he already established that he was trying to generate activity?

[The World No.1 Noob]

This is actually a good point, and effective strategy for scum, especially in a newbie game. I'd like to see Spolium address this.

ok, I know its gonna look like I'm buddying, but he already gave his defense on that, he was trying to generate activity, and by the looks of things now activity is really what we need, half of the ppl havn't said anything for ages.

[The World No.1 Noob]

See, this is exactly what I think fleur was doing when she made the case against Noob. She was trying to spark discussion, albeit in a rather poor way. And she did spark discussion.

The whole fleur/rishi buddying thing was absolute bull. In no way was fleur buddying to rishi and I don't see how you can logically deduce that or say that it was the most logical decision when only you and Jordan were the ones that saw it.

W *pause* T *pause* F

I suppose 'she was trying to generate discussion is a some what feasible explanation for a bs case, you can say that she was trying to bait scum into agreeing with her, but how that ranked option ranked over mine I'll have no idea

And you overreacted even though the case was terrible.

what's overeacting?

I highly doubt anybody else would have voted for you based on that case

I'm not trying to not have others vote for me, well I am, but that's not priority 1, I'm trying to and have others to vote for scum

yet you placed a vote on her just because she voted for you on a bad case.

I'm really baffled here, I'm supposed to not for for her if she votes for me on a bad case? What reason would a townie have to feel the need to nit a completely bs case together? (apart from fish hooking but I seriously doubt fleur was doing that based on the capacity of knowledge of the game she was demonstrating, especially since she raged quited proving that she wasn't pretending).

That's got OMGUS written all over it, and you can't deny it.

I deny it

Then you wrote an entire paragraph which is basically summed up as WIFOM, for no reason.

no its not WIFOM, I fail to see where the options loop to infinity, and guys correct me if I'm wrong but an "entire paragraph" [*sarcasim*o dear lord he must be insane to write an entire paragraph] really isn't that much, you've just written 2 paragraphs.


I see your cases on everyone else zzzzzzzz, as well, but I'll let them defend themselves.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I rank it over your idea because its something that I've done before. >_> Plus, I saw no evidence that she was buddying to Rishi.

so you've intentionaly made a case that you didn't believe in to generate discussion? in my opinion that's more anti-town than protown.

Your OMGUS vote.

I guess this is your opinion, would the rest of the town like to share theirs and have a majority wins?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I meant was that it seemed that you thought people were going to vote for you based on that case. But they didn't, so you had nothing to worry about. Tell me if I'm correct.

hmmm, well I was certain that no IC or vaguely experienced player would vote for me on that case, but it could however lead out really newbies to vote for me but by no way would that have reached a majority rule, so no I wasn't scared of ppl voting for me. I guess I can admit one mistake I made with the handleing of the situation, I should have waited to see if the case fish hooked a newbie scum...but what's done is done, can't do anything about it now.

I'm not saying a paragraph is long, it's just that you could have summed it up as WIFOM, and I don't remember why you really did it. I'll have to go back to see.

her case wasn't WIFOM, it ws BS, big dif.

[The World No.1 Noob]

As for the WIFOM, this is what I meant. Copy and pasted.

scum trying to frame townie is just a reverse hook of buddying, they try and have the rest of the towin pick up that they've buddied so if they're lynched they could take someone down with them. But this wouldn't really work that well because like my previous point I don't see a reason why a scum would have to buddy with the other scum, it even gives more assurance that the person left is innoceant to me, but you could say that the scum know's I'll think that way and buddy his partner but because I've thought of that too he can do the opposite again which means its an unconcludible argument so it could happen either way and therefore there was no point in doing such a trick in the first place. (tell me if you know what I mean I can barely understand this myself when I read over it)

o right yes that bit was WIFOM, but as I've said my buddying hypothesis is just a statistical guess, but to a certain extent its irrelevent.

However, my suspicions of you have died down after your last post. I'll keep my vote on you cause it doesn't really matter since I'm your only vote on you.

why has it died down?

[The World No.1 Noob]

he slicey, what's the other site that you play on? cos I do kinda get a bit annoyed a that a game on this one takes a whole month for the first day

[The World No.1 Noob]

omg, this is starting to get hard to follow, accusations and votes everywhere
this is essentially a I'm still here post, but just saying that I might not be making too many posts untill I get my bearing and I sort out some stuff in RL.

[The World No.1 Noob]

there was a great deal going on in my opinion, perhaps I've been too concentrated on feur/slicy and when the other cases started poping up I just found I had absolutely no info or opinion inside my head making it hard to follow for me

[The World No.1 Noob]

I guys, I just got back from camp, really tired, will try and analyise today

[The World No.1 Noob]

OK, guys here's my analysis. Unlike the ones so far I think I'll go with a different approach. Analyzing everyone's actions isn't my style, I'm going to use absoulte information to deduce more info. So what I'm saying is that I won't look at too much at how you guys acted but how fleur/slicey acted towards you.

Mango wrote:
Agreed, let's plaaaaaaay =<

My vote was really just random, so if LifeStandsStill can defend himself, I'll withdraw my vote.
- i really don't like this post, mango- first of all, nobody accuses you of not random voting, so strongly defending the 'non-randomness' of your voting is a little odd at this stage. secondly, as hoopla says, why would LifeStandsStill defend himself? Did he/she do anything scummy? If so, i haven't noticed. I am positive about him/her being more active in the game, especially now when he has been voted by two people (me and you) so it would be good if he could say something. however, the truth is that there is nothing much to be said if our votes are random, because i wouldn't expect anyone to claim his role at this situation, so what else can we expect?
FoS: Mango

fleurs push on mango is emphasised several times later on, but I'm going to save some space
Doesn't seem like Spolium is scum

I like LifeStandsStill way of thinking, and it would be stupid to lynch him just because he got too many random votes

Unvote: LifeStandsStill

Fleur, I appreciate that you like my way of thinking and decided to unvote me, but from what I've re-read through the previous pages, you had never put a vote on me. That is unless I cannot see it...

fluer's buddying quite obvious
so doesn't seem like Fenchurch is scum either but lifeSS might have just wanted to put some distance between him and his partner just in case.

fleurdelys wrote:
I think dreambri is accuing because she put Jordan in FoS


To me accusing and suspicion are two comletely different things. For someone to pretty much draw a name out of a hat and say "Hey give me information",which is pretty much what he said but in my words, Is pretty suspicious to me ,when in fact that person has provided little to no information in the game. I admit I haven't provided much toward the game so far either , but honestly there wasn't much going on for me to comment about, and I wasn't the one randomly picking a name and asking for someone else's opinion either.

example of healthy exchange between scum and town, makes BSG seem town, but I had a suspicious on him (mostly becuase of mrfixij) maybe I'll pick up on why later

Fenchurch wrote:
I'm also of the opinion that the case on fleurdelys is not that strong. I don't like the way JordanA24 dropped in, stuck his vote on, then disappeared again. Actually I don't like most of the votes on the wagon.
Hoopla - initial vote was random/semi-random, and now agrees with the case that has built up around her. Rather convenient. Calling for a claim already.
JordanA24 - despite being in the game since the start, has barely contributed - 5 votes spread over 7 game pages - but still had enough time to add his vote on what probably seemed to be the most popular case at the time.
Spolium - adds his vote to fleur after having just received votes himself from mrfixij and Signal. Says that she is trying to push heat elsewhere, but it seems like he could be doing the same thing.
The World No.1 Noob - jumps on and off the wagon, and does seem to be largely based on OMGUS counter-attacking.

However, you can't all be scum, and so:

vote: JordanA24

I don't support fleur claiming, unless there is a player willing to drop the hammer. From what I can tell, the only players who want her lynched right now are those already on the wagon; I would prefer for a claim request to come from someone not already voting her.


I don't know if I like this. We don't know if fleurdelys is scum or not. If fleur gets lynched today and turns up town, then I think this analysis is relevant, but it all goes out the window if fleur flips scum. What makes you so sure that the case isn't strong? I'm not ready to vote for fleur, but the poiints against him (her?) are not so out of left field that they are irrelevant.

As for Jordan, specifically, he did list his reasons for voting fleur when he originally posted. And he hasn't posted ANYWHERE since the 19th. I have a feeling that he's probably busy.

The World No. 1 Noob wrote:

Every game has bandwagons, you can't lynch someone without one, its true that the next day the bandwagon can be looked at in great detail for info. on scum but not all bandwagon's are scummy.


Wow. I actually 100% agree with this statement.

Late slight agreement of the wagon, this isn't that much of scum proof but what really makes me suspcious is:
Rishi, being an IC you havn't done that much yet, and also I realised that fleur's almost has no contact with you, and that if I adjust my model from her buddying with you to her trying to help her scum partner it makes perfect sense


OMG, sry guys, i got so caught up in reading I forgot to note the rest down

quick summary, really don't like mrx, tried to save slice a lot and quit when she was going down,
I'm going to allow myself to play as if spolium is comfirmed town, going to kick myself really hard if he isn't
rishi really hasn't done much, his posts mediate, its as if he's a mod making coments
unsure about others

for now:

vote: rishi

Post 65
The 'too newbie to be newb' argument??? Also, why was it important to point out.
And you can expect a penguin at your home for this:
Noob wrote:
women...you know how they are

I hope you can get online after he's done with you

I like penguins, they taste really nice, I heard from the chief that its really hard to get rid of their feathers because they're water proof. their blubber has this melt in the mouth feeling and their meat is like really soft duck. Most of it tastes delicous if you steam it in herbs and veges, but the feet taste the best if you marinate it in white wine.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I think I did give my opinions on things Day 1, but I also had to do a lot of teaching in this game, since that's the role of the IC. You probably remember the teaching more than the opinions. (No, I don't just casually throw my vote around - but I do question scummy behavior.)

Fenchurch wrote:

The main thing that I noticed though, is all the stuff about fleur apparently "buddying" with Rishi. At the time, it seemed absurd to me, and I still don't really see it as buddying in the traditional sense of "agree with a townie to get them on your side". But I does occur to me that perhaps, as a scum pair, fleur saw Rishi had a vote on No. 1 Noob and decided to join forces, mistakenly thinking it to be much more easy to push a lynch through.


Uh... what? My vote on Noob was random, which I removed in the third post. And even if fleur was following my case, how does that make me any more likely scum?

Also, Fenchurch, what was your opinion on fleur in the re-read? You seemed pretty convinced that fleur was town on Day 1?

Really want to hear more from MME. He's been promising to post for a long time.

I guess I'm just picking on you becuase you're an IC, and like last time I played the ICs came up with some pretty amazing stuff.

[The World No.1 Noob]

So does this mean you're voting me only because I'm an IC? That's pretty weak.

it is pretty weak I guess, think of it as my random vote for day 2

[The World No.1 Noob]

The World No.1 Noob wrote:
Quote:

So does this mean you're voting me only because I'm an IC? That's pretty weak.


it is pretty weak I guess, think of it as my random vote for day 2


Now that we actually have something to work with, why are you even considering a random vote? What's the point?

I hope you have a good explanation for this.

yea sry, I'm really kinda lost at the moment, I don't have really have a person that I'm suspicious of over everyone else, all my analysing of the previous day seems to come down to jack crap.

unvote: rishi

[The World No.1 Noob]

Sry for not posting, schools started for me, and the work load is just huge. I'll make a catch up post this weekend.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I will say this for now: I hate the way Noob is playing. Day 2 random vote. Backing off his vote when he was questioned on it. Not really chiming in on anything except when directly asked. But, I still firmly believe he's town, because I don't think he would have gotten into that whole thing with fleur if they were scum together.

this is going to sound very soft, but I wouldn't like my own day 2 play if I looked at myself, I guess I'm more effective when I'm onto something, I get more motivated to read into things.

Right now I have no position, or am undecided on any of the cases.

But I do agree that BSG should be under the most pressure but that pressure has just been taken off, she's the one we really need to hear from right now

[The World No.1 Noob]

I'm here as always

[The World No.1 Noob]

sigh....so what happens when everyone in the game cbb playing anymore...

[The World No.1 Noob]

well...it doesn't look like ThaCoolness's strat of playing is much differen't from BSG's, except he's silent straight away where BSG made 1 post

[The World No.1 Noob]

well I say ThaCoolness's stratagy is better than BSG's cos this way he gives away nothing

vote: form own gang, this village doesn't deserve to live

[The World No.1 Noob]

hmmm, don't agree with Fenchurch's vote, but his strat is definatly the way to go, nobody is posting so I'll place votes on to make people talk

unvote
vote: ThaCoolness

[The World No.1 Noob]

No.1 Noob wrote:
nobody is posting so I'll place votes on to make people talk


Announcing that you're about to place a pressure vote sort of defeats the point.

Its not a pure pressure vote, at this point I think the contribution of ThaCoolness or any replacement of him is going to give limited insight (PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG ThaCoolness), so I'm not going to be too bothered if we all just lynched him if he doesn't respond.

[The World No.1 Noob]

[sarcasim]is it just me, or does MME seem to post the same thing every time?[sarcasim]

[The World No.1 Noob]

Rereading another game first. Will post tomorrow most likely.

why is this game always last on your priorities?

[The World No.1 Noob]

Sorry if I seem to be gone as well...but I agree Fenchurch, this is boring, I lack the motivation do do anything here right now, I mean this game only works if everyone here cares, if we have 2 people who can't be bothered...there's no point in the rest of us being bothered, but my vote is already on coolness anyway.

[The World No.1 Noob]

holy crap, I see lots of meaningful convo,
lots to analyse, will give detailed opinion of all the cases on the weekend

[The World No.1 Noob]

Here's the start of my analysis of the entire game as promised, I've finished with all of Day 1, and in my opinion my opinion will be set from this point forward.

This is a relationships web that I drew out

http://yfrog.com/0rrelationshipswebj

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8285/r ... ipsweb.jpg

[The World No.1 Noob]

[The World No.1 Noob]

[img=http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8285/r ... web.th.jpg]

[The World No.1 Noob]

...sorry for quadruple post...but that's funny I swear you can have the image put directly on....but I can't figure out how, you guys will just have to follow the one of the links, (they're all to the same thing).

[The World No.1 Noob]

Conclusions (without quoted evidence, but you can all find the evidence for yourselves):

Santos/ThaCoolness/BSG/mrfixij/dreambri23 is most likely candidate as scum, dreambri didn't give away much, mrfixij however made it blatantly obvious with his protections of fleur/slicey. Especially the quitting right after scum partner is lynched bit.

Signal and Rishi ties for 2nd, both have spoken for and against fleur, both joined wagon quite late, Signal more so than Rishi, votes for Sp, with mrfixig which if it wasn't for the deadline could have possibly taken attention off slicey. Rishi's opinion change wasn't sudden, it was subtle and just safely early but a huge opinion change never the less, from OMGUS to not without merits. Again the factor of being an IC unnerves me.

If it wasn't for Jordan's play I would be uber suspicious of MME. 90% of his posts can be summarised as 'busy now, will post later'. And his weird offering himself our as lynch was kinda wtf? Not really giving me info that makes me think he's scum but not giving me info that makes me think he's town either, village psychopath. And he's supposed to be one of the 2 ICs, there's a reason there's two ICs so we can get an opinion for both (however if he turns out to be scum I will get out my notebook and record his brilliant work). Rishi even though you've done factors more than MME you still havn't done a lot considering your promise to be very aggressive on Day 2 and 3.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Sorry about not being present when disscussion is so good, I'm very busy atm so I've just scanned the new posts and will address the points directed at me so you guys have the info, will give my opinion of other cases later.

Random voting during D2 is a nono. And I don't like this post. It feels like a swift retreat added with one of my favourite things; undecisiveness.

Noted...it was a stupid move of me to place a vote for no particular reason, I can only say it was my mistake, make of it what you will.

This post rubs me the wrong way. I don't like people pushing for activity while actually not committing to anything. If you want to push for activity, post about a reread and your thoughts, not a vote.

I don't think doing that would have helped in anyway, the vote would be way more effective, nobody cares about your opinion if you don't place the vote.

Once more.

You guessed it: once again.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with my opinion, it was the best thing to do at the time.

Noob, not to take away from your awesome graph, but have you asked OGML whether you were allowed to post that pic or not?

O dear, I hope its not against the rules

OGML, am I allowed to have pictures?

[The World No.1 Noob]

Pfff... Nobody likes lurkers dude. [/hypocrisy]

no, I make these posts at a 10% frequency, you used to do it at a 90% freq.

I don't reckon a single vote to be an opinion. More as an indicator of an opinion. It also indicates (to me at the least) that you do not want to go into detail nor that you do not want to answer to us about your "opinion".

Didn't say vote was exact opinion, what I said was it was my opinion that placing a vote would be more effective than just giving out my views.

Alongside with your posts of "come on, let's talk", which actually have no other content, I get a very non-committal tone from you.

Please expand on this one, I'm the one with non-committal tone? sure I am kinda cbfed right now but compare me with the majority of the group before I one of the best committed.

I'm going to think out loud, if I may, and going to tie your non-committing attitude of D2 to your attitude towards fdl/Slicey during D1. I need to reread D1 (in class atm), but from what I remember, I got a feeling that you were off and on about fdl/Slicey being lynched/bandwagonned.

So now you're using the non-committal attitude argument, which I don't think was correct in the first place, as a foundation for another argument. Yes I hopped on and off the wagon a bit but that's because I couldn't be sure if she was scum or not, look at the times I go on and off, it was to no degree like a scum would when seeing which way the town would vote, I stuck by the wagon when it looked like it had no chance and only went on and off when she was close to being lynched, because that's the decisive moment.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I'm voting for you purely based on your predecessor's actions and the interactions your predecessors had with the confirmed lynched scum and the confirmed killed townie. I'm almost ignoring what has happened in day 2 (sorry if this seems unfair to you), but in my opinion the info. I can gather from definite knowledge in Day one is far more important the all the WIFOM that leads me in circles and gives me a headache in day 2. This way I don't have to think about if you're acting like a townie because you are a townie or acting like a townie because you have very good acting skills.

[The World No.1 Noob]

Perhaps the humor failed a bit too much in that quote of mine...

ooo, right sorry, a bit hard to tell on a forum.

Sure you may have been on the fdl/Slicey wagon, but doesn't mean you get to take the backseat on D2 and "random vote" and complain about activity, which is what you've been doing during D2 imo.

Understood, I will try and do a bit more

[The World No.1 Noob]

this is off topic, but why do I have red letters saying "is having a scumday!" under my name?

[The World No.1 Noob]

haha, thanks guys, you were right in the middle because you were scum. I agree I did fade a lot during D2, but that was because it was the holidays during D1 so I had lots of time to think and post, and I was only able to assert my opinion really late on D2 because of the piles of hw I was getting.

This is my second game on this site too, I think I'll try a normal non-newbie game the next time I play, but it looks like that's going to be a while.

GG everyone

[The World No.1 Noob]

Rishi: I found you to be very cool in your playing style. I'm not sure if this comes from experience, but I found you quite unreadable, which I guess is why I was so distrustful of you. I can't say you did anything scummy, but I didn't think you would have anyway due to experience. I laid my suspicion on a bit thick mid-day 2; this was because at the time I was planning to investigate you and didn't want you to get NKed!

I totally agree with this


Thx slice, I'll check it out.



Hey everyone, who do you all think was MVP of the game?