Newbie 688 - Game Over, Mafia Wins!

[springlullaby]

/confirm

Mastin, often newbie player thinks it a good strategy to be scummy on purpose in the interest of catching scum. Be aware that it pretty much never works since town have very little means of distinguishing between a townie's misguided antics and a true scum committing scumtells.

[springlullaby]

I'm annoyed by Mastin's post, he does sound not very committed.

Mastin, it makes no sense to sign up for a game and say that you'd rather do something else and it is kinda impolite to people who are committed to the game. (Lol, do I sound like a reprimanding parent or what?)

Right now I don't see you as scum, but your vision of the game seems bad. Townies are expected to defend themselves to the best of their ability because they are expected to be able to explain the townie POV behind their actions, failure to do so is justifiably viewed as scummy. Refusing to defend yourself on purpose when you are town is generally a bad idea too because it is akin to ask for town's implicit trust - trust that town has no reason to give you don't explain yourself, which in return makes a scum vote against you very easily justifiable.

Sometimes it is the townie's prerogative to refuse to defend themselves because they see no valid case against them, but even then, it is up to the townie to point it out if it is the case.

In clear, if you think that refusing to defend yourself will help catch scum, you're dead wrong, and you are in fact effectively handing out your lynch to scum with little risk of retribution for the reasons I delineated above.

--------

That said,

Vote Scheherazade

.

I didn't like that analysis, plenty of words but very little content. Give me quite a 'look I'm so town' feel.

I have to say here that I have, fortunately, missed the entire 'deleted by mod' exchange, so the reason of her voting Panamon eludes me, but why bring it up again in her vote since others have no mean of knowing what she's on about?

=======================================

Page 3 Votecount

WeatheredClown: (0/5)
Crysnia: (0/5)
mrfixij: (1/5) WeatheredClown,
Mastin: (3/5) Moses le fou, mrfixij, Panamon
Moses le fou: (0/5)
Scheherazade: (1/5) springlullaby
Panamon: (2/5) Scheherazade, Crysnia,
springlullaby: (0/5)
orangepenguin: (0/5)

Not Voting: (2/9) Mastin, orangepenguin,

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
=======================================

[springlullaby]

I'm not too keen on policy lynches for policy lynching sake in Newbie games, with 9 players, barring successful doc saves, it's lylo with 2 mislynches - and more often than not you've got a bigger proportion of newbtowns who don't know how to avoid scummy pitfalls than 2/9.

Right now I'm not a fan of the Mastin wagon, it's indeed always dangerous to underestimate a newbie player's awkwardness/cunning, but my read on him is newbtown atm. I'll note here that I would be half so lenient if this wasn't a newbie game. Meantime, I suggest everyone look up common logical fallacies and especially WIFOM so we can avoid that in the future.

Also, Mastin, do you have anything to say about the game and who you would like to lynch?

@mrfixij, do you have any suspect beside Mastin?

@Panamon, can you point out what you mean by 'scummy vibe' concerning Mastin's post?

@Schez, the way I understood it, the deleted exchange was your explanation for why you are apparently acting differently from the game Panamon cited - you brought up the rule breaking content, not the other way round. Here, I'm not asking about the content the mod already deleted, but I do question the alignment of a person who is willing to break the rule for the purpose of justifying themselves. You see, it fit under the 'trying too hard' category in my books.

[springlullaby]

@springlullaby: I was acting differently because the circumstances were different. I only discussed it because mrfixj expressed explicit interest in hearing my response (post 30), and I'll note that until that point, the discussion of other ongoing games was not prohibited by volkan (post 34). Not only was the content not "rule-breaking," but both Panamon (post 29) and mrfixj brought it up first. If it's "trying too hard" to answer a question raised by two other players, then I am guilty. Get your facts straight, especially if you're going to be wrinkling your nose at other peoples' lack of commitment.

I don't see what my saying that Mastin not wanting to play after signing up doesn't make sense has anything to do with it, but my point is that the deleted content, and I surmised the rule breaking content, was posted by you. Even if people asked, it was your choice to break the rule, or not to.

You see, the only times I was ever tempted to toe the line were when I was scum.

You saying that it wasn't in the rule is an interesting point. From what I have seen of you, in this and another game I'm in with you, and what you said yourself, I think you are a pretty decent player. But as such, I'm not sure I want to give you as much room as someone I perceive as totally new to this and I'm thinking that you couldn't have missed the fact that revealing critical informations from another game is bad form, wether it is explicitly stated in the rules or not.

What do you think?

Now, I did ask you a question in post 52. Would you care to answer it? Or have you retracted your original reason for suspicion in favour of this new line of reasoning?

It isn't a new line of reasoning, your first analysis post was IMO very neutral about everything, I always suspect players who post when they make a type a lot of word to say nothing much, because it tells me that they really want to look town. That and the way you brought the mod deleted content in fits in the same category I think.

Note here that I don't think 'trying too hard' is a damning scumtell, but enough to be going on with atm.

As for your questions, I thought they were rhetorical, but I'll answer since it doesn't seem to be the case afterall.

@springlullaby:

As to your lack of content observation, I may have to appeal to you here as an IC. I summarised information posted so far and gave as much of my interpretation as I feel comfortable discussing. In it, I flagged those I thought need to post a defence. I raised questions I had. Did you want me to try to provide motives? What if I accidentally provided a defence for scum that wasn't already there?

No, you have missed my point, I'm not asking you to provide motive, I'm saying that posting to express mixed feeling on pretty much everyone is kinda pointless. See above.

It had content enough to make mrfixij and weathered clown warn me against showing my hand. Assuming theirs weren't general warnings, and not implicit confirmations that I had content, what is it that they and I have missed? Content vs. fluff?

Oh but you see, in a way I'm agreeing with mrfixij and weathered clown. When I say that your post doesn't have much content, it means not much content that is useful to the town. From a town perspective there is not much point in posting what you think of everyone - especially when it is not much and not asked of you expressively - so early, because it make reactive game from scum easier, but from a scum perspective, it shows that you've done your homework. What do you think?

[springlullaby]

EBWOP with proper tags, bolded mine.

@springlullaby: I was acting differently because the circumstances were different. I only discussed it because mrfixj expressed explicit interest in hearing my response (post 30), and I'll note that until that point, the discussion of other ongoing games was not prohibited by volkan (post 34). Not only was the content not "rule-breaking," but both Panamon (post 29) and mrfixj brought it up first. If it's "trying too hard" to answer a question raised by two other players, then I am guilty. Get your facts straight, especially if you're going to be wrinkling your nose at other peoples' lack of commitment.

I don't see what my saying that Mastin not wanting to play after signing up doesn't make sense has anything to do with it, but my point is that the deleted content, and I surmised the rule breaking content, was posted by you. Even if people asked, it was your choice to break the rule, or not to.

You see, the only times I was ever tempted to toe the line were when I was scum.

You saying that it wasn't in the rule is an interesting point. From what I have seen of you, in this and another game I'm in with you, and what you said yourself, I think you are a pretty decent player. But as such, I'm not sure I want to give you as much room as someone I perceive as totally new to this and I'm thinking that you couldn't have missed the fact that revealing critical informations from another game is bad form, wether it is explicitly stated in the rules or not.

What do you think?

Now, I did ask you a question in post 52. Would you care to answer it? Or have you retracted your original reason for suspicion in favour of this new line of reasoning?

It isn't a new line of reasoning, your first analysis post was IMO very neutral about everything, I always suspect players who post when they make a type a lot of word to say nothing much, because it tells me that they really want to look town. That and the way you brought the mod deleted content in fits in the same category I think.

Note here that I don't think 'trying too hard' is a damning scumtell, but enough to be going on with atm.

As for your questions, I thought they were rhetorical, but I'll answer since it doesn't seem to be the case afterall.

@springlullaby:

As to your lack of content observation, I may have to appeal to you here as an IC. I summarised information posted so far and gave as much of my interpretation as I feel comfortable discussing. In it, I flagged those I thought need to post a defence. I raised questions I had. Did you want me to try to provide motives? What if I accidentally provided a defence for scum that wasn't already there?

No, you have missed my point, I'm not asking you to provide motive, I'm saying that posting to express mixed feeling on pretty much everyone is kinda pointless. See above.

It had content enough to make mrfixij and weathered clown warn me against showing my hand. Assuming theirs weren't general warnings, and not implicit confirmations that I had content, what is it that they and I have missed? Content vs. fluff?

Oh but you see, in a way I'm agreeing with mrfixij and weathered clown. When I say that your post doesn't have much content, it means not much content that is useful to the town. From a town perspective there is not much point in posting what you think of everyone - especially when it is not much and not asked of you expressively - so early, because it make reactive game from scum easier, but from a scum perspective, it shows that you've done your homework. What do you think?

[springlullaby]

Shez, it puzzles me that you are agreeing with what I said so readily. My being an IC doesn't mean I'm automatically town. I could have ulterior motives.

The same goes to mrfixij.

[springlullaby]

Shez, it puzzles me that you are agreeing with what I said so readily. My being an IC doesn't mean I'm automatically town. I could have ulterior motives.

The same goes to mrfixij.

It could be me being blind and having a non-functioning brain at 1:00 in the morning, but I fail to see where we agree with you. If anything, from what I've seen, you're agreeing with a previously expressed sentiment of mine.

Also, saying that you could have ulterior motives is the obvious statement of the century. As soon as a player grasps the basic element of mafia, (s)he is aware that scum is going to have ulterior motives. Since the town doesn't know who scum is, every player could have said ulterior motives. The real question is, do you or don't you?

If I didn't know better I'd say that you're almost trying to hint at your position this early in the game. That, or you're saying that the aforementioned agreement which I can't find anywhere is a slight scumtell in our direction, in which case you should be a little more upfront, don't you think? Or, as a third option, you're simply calling it a null-tell, which is useless for town to hunt down scum.

When I say you agreed with me I refer to the fact that you voted Schez apparently on my lead, whereas when you first pointed out Schez's post being lacking of content (or in your words, giving too much away), you didn't vote for her.

What do you think of Schez exactly?

@springlullaby: Even if you're mafia taking advantage of a weak post I made, I'm somewhat culpable because I gave you that opening. When it's appropriate to contradict you and say "no, that post had lots of content" I will. If I could improve, then why pick a fight with you when you could be town trying to help rather than mafia?

Either way, I'm keeping our exchange in the back of my mind. If you do anything else that strikes me as slightly off, I'll remember this. Don't think I've swallowed it whole.

Hm, I don't like much your answer here, I believe it constitutes a drastic change in tone from your last post which was much more on the 'appeasing' side. This is scummy because scum have very often difficulties in maintaining a consistent character.

So far you are the one who is pinging my scumdar the strongest, and I am very interested in getting you lynched, what do you say?

Orangepenguin, it is time you chirp in. You have contributed near to nothing so far, and this is even more unacceptable because you are an IC.
You are the second on my scumlist, I would not be unhappy to get you lynched either. Who do you think is scum?

Concerning Mastin, I think it is a dead tree. At this point he could as easily be scum than town. An investigation should clear the matter.

[springlullaby]

@springlullaby: I changed my tone because I think you were wrongly reading too much acquiescence in my other post.

As for lynching me, you want to do it because I broke a rule that wasn't a rule and my posts don't sound properly homogeneous. I think you're grasping. I know it's day one and therefore difficult to get a good read of any particular person, but you've had tunnelvision this entire game. Your suspicion started exactly two pages in. Are you really that convinced?

You know, your 'tunnelvision bit' and 'are you really that convinced' question is pinging some, because you do know my alignment in C9++.

But to answer you, I actually like how you explained the change in your tone.

Unvote: Sheherazade.

I'm closing the chapter on the investigation of Mastin comment. I said what I said, people can interpret it as they want. I do believe that discussion around Mastin is futile.

I'm mixed about mrfixij, he does seem to be jumping around a bit but what works for him is that he is pretty vocal, and there is a kind of confident quality to his posts. In any case, mrfixij, I hope you know that you are ultimately responsible for your own vote, no excuse to it. What I note is that he has avoided the Panamon wagon all day, well demonstrating willingness to push for two other wagons.

I don't really like the wagon on Panamon, he hasn't posted a lot, and I'm not sure I understand the points against him. What do seem bizare is the total lack of post from QuestionMark, but I'm not sure that could be considered a scumtell.

So

Prod: QuestionMark please

What I don't like is the insistent tone of Crysnia in calling Panamon scum.

Vote: Crysnia

Can you please to the best of your ability explain why you think Panamon is scum?

[springlullaby]

@springlullaby: I hoped that revisiting your remark to me in your last post would help me understand it. I'm afraid I don't quite follow. I don't want to seem like I'm ignoring a charge against me: would you mind explaining and in terms that don't rely on an ongoing game?

I'm not digging this, you seem to imply that the fact C9++ is still an ongoing game has a relevance here, it has not. Whether you are town or scum in that game, it doesn't bare you from the knowledge that I was town in it because I have already been cardflipped.
___________________

BM, what do you think of Crysnia? I think she has a pretty high chance of being scum, you?

Btw, I've played two game with you, and you have so far caused my death twice, once as scum opposing town you in R-1000, another time in Nice Shot in which I was your scumbuddy. Welcome.
___________________

Crysnia, where are your suspicions now?

___________________

I dig mrfixij at the moment, the only bemol I see is a possible connection between him and BM: avoiding the Panamon wagon while pushing for the other wagons at disposition, BM fast vote and unvote possible soft bussing.

[springlullaby]

I've been accused of tunnelvision in that game too, that's just how I work.

Btw, what do you think of Crysnia?

[springlullaby]

BM, who do you suspect?

[springlullaby]

Haha..I have played two completed games with BM so far, and both those times, he was scum. I played a couple others were he wasn't scum, but he died. It was after day 3. Even though Stoofer's Law is likely a joke, BM isn't always scum, if he survives past day 3.

Your statement makes no sense and has no bearing on this game. He could have been scum 100 times in a row and the chance of him being scum in this game would be the same as any other game.

@Moses: I didn't bring it up because I didn't really see what you guys were talking about until someone asked me who was suspicious and I said fixij and the next post from spring is a vote for me.

Also it is very likely that I will be lynched today as you notice that Spring has taken to point the finger at me any chance she gets. So I am pretty much resigned to letting you guys lynch me. Yes, very anti-town behavior but nothing I have said nor say seems to be helpful. I was asked who I thought was suspicious. I gave an answer and BAM I'm scum and attacked because I answered without "proof." It is the first day and we never have proof on the first day but someone has to be lynched, right?

Ah, the charm of newbie games. Lol, I just can't tell.

[springlullaby]

Moses le fou, you do realise that the person who committed the infraction was Schez, not Panamon, right?

[springlullaby]

Out of game references are not against the rule, revealing critical information about ongoing game is, and as I understand it, it is Shez who committed the later. mrfixij where do you stand exactly concerning panamamon?

[springlullaby]

Interesting, first vote all day from you, OP.

Please give you thoughts on every and each player in this game please, I think you are due.

[springlullaby]

EWBOP *your

I swear, my English is actually getting worse and worse since I frequent these forums

[springlullaby]

Why should I back you up?

It has always been my view that Panamon didn't break the rule at all. Schez did. It was entirely up to Schez to say 'sorry that goes into no-no territory', and that would have been the end of it.

I agree with BM on this point.

--------------------------------------

Other dudes voting people, what do you think of BM?

[springlullaby]

Hi Aldusk glad to see you here, even though I contributed to your lynch, I think you made the newbie game really good fun!

Weathered Clown, what do you think of BM?

[springlullaby]

Not that it was addressed to me, rulebreaking is a possible scumtell in my books because scum generally feel more under pressure to perform and prove that they are town.

I don't think ad hominem is an applicable scumtell for BM, from past game iirc he likes to be prickly when he is town too. But I don't like his case on Moses because I don't think his 'he is trying to discredit me' sounds like scum.

That said, Crysnia's claim was very bad - you don't claim vanilla when you are not under the hammer, period - and I don't like her last post either: tell me why do you think people who are 'leading your lynch' are automatically scummy?

Btw, I'm kinda surprised BM didn't pick on this.

I feel really comfortable with my Crysnia vote and I think people should consider it.

[springlullaby]

I owe this game so much, and am a bad bad IC.

At this point of the game, I feel totally disconnected, I'm giving this a reread. I've noticed while skimming over the last page that Crysnia's has been stepping up a bit, so I'd like to know what has come of her suspicion of me.

I totally do not like that last post from mrfixij but I'll let people answer for themselves.

I also do not like BM changing vote after vote, I remember town BM being more fixated and affirmative than that.

=======================================

Page 20 Votecount

WeatheredClown: (1/5) Battle Mage,
Crysnia: (1/5) springlullaby,
mrfixij: (0/5)
Alduskkel: (0/5)
Moses le fou: (1/5) orangepenguin,
Scheherazade: (0/5)
Battle Mage: (3/5) Scheherazade, Moses le fou, mrfixij,
springlullaby: (0/5)
orangepenguin: (1/5) Crysnia,

Not Voting: (2/9) WeatheredClown, Alduskkel,

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch!
=======================================

[springlullaby]

Hm, I don't think WC reads like scum at all.

And I have to say I like about everything about CF's post except from his reason to think Weather scummy, it is just dissonant and a tad textbook.

But yeah, Weather your cue to claim is now if you want to.

[springlullaby]

V/LA dec 20 to janv 2

I read thread often, post less often.

I have no good POV on this game. Too much WIFOM. Performance anxiety maybe.

BUT I've decided that OP is the most likely scum right now.

Day 1 was less than stellar, and his 577 feels way off.

I'm no longer sold on crynia scum, I think it is really her personality.

I don't like Alduskkel but last time I played with him, I was wrong in my read.

Vote OP

[springlullaby]

Yes, I'm here, rereading.

[springlullaby]

I believe Moses atm.

I've changed my mind about OP, his last post reads natural independently of content.

I still don't like Alduskel.

But I think BM has indeed being playing subpar this entire game.

CF is faring better.

I'm open to lynch either Alduskel or BM.

[springlullaby]

Unvote, Vote Alduskel

[springlullaby]

BTW, I'd like to know what CF thinks of me.

And what he thinks of Schez's play.

[springlullaby]

Yeah, I'm not being good IC.

To answer alduskkel - I'm not liking you because I think you are going for all the obvious textbook wagons.

CF-riot, the thing here is, I didn't like Schez' read at all, and found it different from the mini game in which we were both in. I unvoted her because I feared she might be blue, but now that cop and doc has both been claimed, she can't be.

And you see, I don't like your last post about doc either. Uncounterclaimed doc has still a better chance of not being scum.


In fact

Vote CF-Riot

This one is sticking.

[springlullaby]

I'm an excellent IC, and you should all give me cash monies and blood offerings to show your gratitude. (That was a joke, I'm not really

that

cocky.)

Spring

:

Also, what does this quote,

I've changed my mind about OP, his last post reads natural independently of content.

mean? I don't think it's suspicious, I just don't understand what it means.

This, and if you can mathematically or otherwise convince me that

Uncounterclaimed doc has still a better chance of not being scum.

is valid, I'll be satisfied. I'm looking for something where the odds of being town are greater than 50%.

Tell me, can you prove mathematically that the odds of being town for any of the remaining player is greater than 50%? Then please do the maths proving that the chances for Moses to be town are not greater than everybody else, and I'll correct you.

I'm not sure why you are arguing this point.

1. If you are lobbying for an OP wagon, I think of all OP's fault, not wanting to lynch uncounterclaimed doc is not a damning one.

2. If your purpose is to convict Moses le Fou on the ground that he claimed doc, I think it is pretty scummy.

[springlullaby]

http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php ... 80#1390580

This post smells like scum hardcore. It pins WC to textbook faults such as lack of logic, whereas what he said in his defense makes very much sense. The tone is off too, it reads as a justification of your vote as opposed to a conviction of a person's guilt. Then there is the 'Minor FOS', 'Regular FOS' thing, it reads too orderly for my taste.

Then you depicting Crysnia as an obvious wagon today is also off to me, because from my POV the wagon on her hinges on a judgement of character, which is the hardest call of all.

[springlullaby]

I'm not in the business of proving to you what I say. People can read what I wrote, it is up to them to decide if they agree or not.

[springlullaby]

I can answer them, I just don't want to

[springlullaby]

Please explain the use of that emoticon.

What is it intended to indicate?

[springlullaby]

Tell me, can you prove mathematically that the odds of being town for any of the remaining player is greater than 50%? Then please do the maths proving that the chances for Moses to be town are not greater than everybody else, and I'll correct you.

I'm not sure why you are arguing this point.

1. If you are lobbying for an OP wagon, I think of all OP's fault, not wanting to lynch uncounterclaimed doc is not a damning one.

2. If your purpose is to convict Moses le Fou on the ground that he claimed doc, I think it is pretty scummy.

Neither. Please stop trying to guess my intent and answer the questions I pose. You've ignored the first twice now, and didn't even attempt to answer the second even though you clearly read it.

I suppose 50% was the wrong number to use in my second request. What I'm trying to say is this. Can you prove to me that, given the circumstances of this game, claiming doctor changes the likelihood of a person being scum

at all

. My thinking is, there are

only

two possibilities.

• There is a doc. -> MLF is telling the truth.
  There is no doc. -> MLF is lying, and most likely scum.

Given the information we already know (WC was cop) the chance of a doctor existing in this set-up is 50%.

Next I consider the scenario in which there is no doc. Given that WC flipped before MLF was at claiming point, we can safely assume that the chance that any scum (MLF in this example) would attempt a fake-doc-claim when pressured is 100%. (If there are 2 goons, they

know

doc is a safe-claim. Therefore, they have absolutely

no

reason to claim vanilla instead of doc.)

Therefore, since the probability that a doc claim will be truthful is at 50%, I consider a person claiming doc to change the probability of them being scum by 0%.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

What question of yours haven't I answered to?

[springlullaby]

I've changed my mind about OP, his last post reads natural independently of content.

What does this mean?

Uncounterclaimed doc has still a better chance of not being scum.

Can you back this up at all?

1. It means that I've decided he reads town.

2. Actually I can't and you are right in that he doc claim changes nothing.

I'm pretty sure I moved my vote to CF riot somwhere but no matter.

Unvote, vote CF Riot.

Sticking to my gut on Schez.

That's L-1

[springlullaby]

Lol, I'd like to see what CF-Riot has to say to Alduskkel post above.

Mrfixij, why vote only to unvote at L-1. That's pure crap play.

[springlullaby]

Btw, I don't think you aren't scum anymore Alduskel.

[springlullaby]

Pressure voting = very scummy in my books.

There is no such things as pressure vote because if you are town, any time you vote, you must be voting for the one person you think is the likeliest scum. Which means that you should be willing for your vote to go to a lynch.

I'm certainly not trying 'pressure voting' any time soon.

[springlullaby]

1.Prove me what's wrong with voting based on gut on page thirty first then you get to use caplocks.

2.Because gut is high risk high reward. Because gut is what you want to do deep down anyway, which is always more satisfying.

[springlullaby]

Yup it has.

=======================================

Page 31 Votecount

mrfixij: (1/4) Alduskkel,
Alduskkel: (0/4)
Moses le fou: (1/4) CF Riot,
CF Riot: (2/4) orangepenguin, springlullaby,
Battle Mage: (0/4)
springlullaby: (0/4)
orangepenguin: (2/4) Moses le fou, Battle Mage,

Not Voting: (1/7) mrfixij,

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
=======================================

Retractable deadline for Friday 23 January at 6:30 pm GMT+10.

[springlullaby]

What is the purpose the post above?

[springlullaby]

Wanna jump on the CF wagon? I think it is a good wagon, you'll love it here.

[springlullaby]

Sure

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

All nailed all three scum day one.

[springlullaby]

Hmm. I might vote for CF Riot, but I'd like to wait for him to defend himself before putting him at L-1.

Oh my, this is kind of too good to be true.

How likely does the rest of town think that the above is genuine newbieness?

Bah.

Unvote, Vote: Alduskel.

[springlullaby]

Hmm. I might vote for CF Riot, but I'd like to wait for him to defend himself before putting him at L-1.

Seriously, is no one beside me noting the holycowscumminess of the above?

Tell me Aldi, can you explain why you started considering voting CF all of sudden in the post above?

[springlullaby]

Wait orange, are you claiming scum?

[springlullaby]

I am L-1, BTW. I could just as well end the day, but I would rather survive than CF, since I am less of a threat than the roleblocker is.

Explain this then please.

[springlullaby]

How exactly do you expect to catch scum by claiming scum?

[springlullaby]

Right. Cutting the crap short.

Unvote, Vote OrangePenguin

If you're town damn you.

[springlullaby]

You're not, I just hammered you.

[springlullaby]

This game sucks so much (not that I didn't contribute in making it so) it's actually starting to get fun.

[springlullaby]

Also, I'm never IC'ing again, 'm not cut for that shit. Newbies are ebul.

[springlullaby]

Bah, I don't think we have any newbie left anyway.

But we did succeed in driving Mastin and Crysnia away as it seems.

Go us.

[springlullaby]

When we are at it, CF, link to the the game cited in your sig? I wanna admire your balls.

[springlullaby]

Hmm. I might vote for CF Riot, but I'd like to wait for him to defend himself before putting him at L-1.

Seriously, is no one beside me noting the holycowscumminess of the above?

Tell me Aldi, can you explain why you started considering voting CF all of sudden in the post above?

Because your gut had been accurate before, but as I said you were employing a fallacy.

Also, driving away Crysnia and Mastin is nothing to be proud of.

OP, shut up, according to Rule 5 you're not allowed to talk at all.

Finally, this game does not suck.

Lol, still scummy Aldi baby. For considering a lynch based on my guts. Because, for starters, how do you know I'm not scum?

[springlullaby]

Hmm. I might vote for CF Riot, but I'd like to wait for him to defend himself before putting him at L-1.

Seriously, is no one beside me noting the holycowscumminess of the above?

Tell me Aldi, can you explain why you started considering voting CF all of sudden in the post above?

Because your gut had been accurate before, but as I said you were employing a fallacy.

Also, driving away Crysnia and Mastin is nothing to be proud of.

OP, shut up, according to Rule 5 you're not allowed to talk at all.

Finally, this game does not suck.

Lol, still scummy Aldi baby. For considering a lynch based on my guts. Because, for starters, how do you know I'm not scum?

So you admit that your gut is bad? Why did you vote for CF Riot at all then?

Nuh nuh nuh, I admit to nothing, sir. :p

Aldi-Al, that's not how it works. However delicious and divine my guts may be, town you isn't likely to consider a lynch based on them, especially since you have been seemingly suspicious of me all day, since town you doesn't know whether I'm scum.

And for your information, my guts is exquisite, but it is also my prerogative to change my mind anytime I wish.

[springlullaby]

SL, I have not been suspicious of you. That would be OMGUS.

Why did you hammer OP?

You sure you haven't been suspicious of me? Do you know what FOS mean?

Because he claimed scum?

[springlullaby]

Vote Alduskkel

I'm putting my all my marbles on this one. See yesterday twilight conversation.

=======================================

Page 34 Votecount

mrfixij: (0/4)
Alduskkel: (1/4) springlullaby
Moses le fou: (0/4)
CF Riot: (0/4)
Battle Mage: (0/4)
springlullaby: (0/4)

Not Voting: (5/6) mrfixij, Alduskkel, Moses le fou, CF Riot, Battle Mage,

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
=======================================

[springlullaby]

Now, my reason to vote you Aldy is you 'considered' voting CF-Riot on my gut feeling.

BM, you thoughts on Alduskkel and my twilight conversation with him please.
Same to CF-Riot.

[springlullaby]

You point is crap, how can I tell he is telling the truth after he claimed scum?

Lol, can we lynch Alduskkel already?

[springlullaby]

And that invalidate my point how?

[springlullaby]

No, it is you who are oblivious to townie thinking.

[springlullaby]

Lol you prove once again that you are full of scum.

So you're saying you would have believed OP at face value, like you would have followed me on my gut?

This newbie game may not be an exercise in futility after all. Here Aldy-scum learn to avoid the scumslip of knowing people's innocence via paranormal powers in the future.

[springlullaby]

The value of nolynching is null. I'd rather to see an end to this.

But anyway.

Vote nolynch

[springlullaby]

Unvote, Vote Nolynch

Btw, i'm voting Alduskkel tomorrow if I live.

[springlullaby]

So you're voting for No Lynch even though its "value is null"?

Heh, it is amusing to see you trying to claw at any angle of attack you can now that I have made clear I think you are scum.

The reasoning behind no-lynch is to force scum to eliminate a townie in order to improve the probability of hitting scum on tomorrow's lynch if a NK so occurs. Personally I'm confident enough in you being scum to put all my marbles on you. But as I have pretty much thrown all my town creds out of the windows by now by being too lazy to bother turning my 'serious business is serious' persona on yesterday, I don't think I stand a chance of convincing the remaining townies of lynching you. So I'm not even gonna try.

[springlullaby]

I'm kind of worried that you're getting tunnel vision on me.

Tunnel vision? So you think I'm town, huh?

There is something very endearing about you Aldy

[springlullaby]

I still fail to see why a no-lynch is better. I showed the math on why 2/5 is worse for us. And even if it weren't, I'd rather we at least take a shot at making it 1/5 before we either drift our way towards Happily Ever After or lose a townie tonight.

If you don't want nolynch, who do you want to lynch mister under the radar claimed doc?

[springlullaby]

I'm kind of worried that you're getting tunnel vision on me.

Tunnel vision? So you think I'm town, huh?

There is something very endearing about you Aldy

I never said I thought you were Town in that post.

Not in so many words, no

[springlullaby]

I'm kind of worried that you're getting tunnel vision on me.

Tunnel vision? So you think I'm town, huh?

There is something very endearing about you Aldy

I never said I thought you were Town in that post.

What I was trying to say in that post is asking SL, if she is Town, to consider whether or not she's getting tunnel vision on me. We can't really afford even 1 misguided townie in lylo.

And I do think she is just a misguided Townie,

though I think it has got to the point where she's almost fabricating evidence, which is kind of scummy. But I know there's a part of me that wants to OMGUS her crazy hard so I am trying not to be biased.

And sorry, I looked at Post 860 instead of 861.

Bold mine. Quoted for reference.

Tunnel vision is a term that apply to town only, Alduskkel use the term to describe me, this make me ask Alduskkel if he think I'm a town.

Tell me Aldy, I asked you a straight question, why not answer to it?

Why did I ask that question? Because the follow up question is this: why do you think I am town?

-----------------

Now, Aldy, if you want to make accusations such as 'pulling thing out of things air', 'making things up' you back your words now.

Because if else, the rule of no u applies

[springlullaby]

Requesting deadline now

=======================================

Page 36 Votecount

NO LYNCH (3/4): Alduskkel, springlullaby, mrfixij,

mrfixij: (0/4)
Alduskkel: (0/4)
Moses le fou: (1/4) CF Riot,
CF Riot: (0/4)
Battle Mage: (0/4)
springlullaby: (0/4)

Not Voting: (2/6) Moses le fou, Battle Mage,

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
=======================================

[springlullaby]

I still fail to see why a no-lynch is better. I showed the math on why 2/5 is worse for us. And even if it weren't, I'd rather we at least take a shot at making it 1/5 before we either drift our way towards Happily Ever After or lose a townie tonight.

If you don't want nolynch, who do you want to lynch mister under the radar claimed doc?

I don't know yet.

Tell me, what can you possibly be waiting for?

[springlullaby]

Vote: Moses

. Honestly, whether I'm right or wrong, scum played good this game.

No lynching is stupid, but if you guys want to then that's fine.

Why are you voting Moses.

Why are you not voting Alduskkel.

[springlullaby]

Everyone stall now please so we can get a deadline

[springlullaby]

Why the request for deadline, SL?

Why the not request for deadline, Aldy?

What else do you want to discuss? You have been posting inconsequential zlurp for 2 pages now without a hint of making your mind up.

And it's not as if this was a difficult choice, we are in lylo:
1. either you are sure enough about someone being scum, you vote him
2. either you are not, and go the safe route of nolynch to be in lylo again tomorrow whether the scum kills or not

What is so difficult about a decision now?

[springlullaby]

Btw, Alduskkel is the only person I'm voting today.

[springlullaby]

Why the request for deadline, SL?

Why the not request for deadline, Aldy?

Answer the question, SL. That's a non-answer right there.

No, you ask a question that I do not feel to be justified, I am throwing the ball right back at you. Beside my questions present a direct answer to your post, I believe that it's time for people make up their mind, and also explain that it's not a hard thing to do given the options.

You have been posting inconsequential zlurp for 2 pages now without a hint of making your mind up.

Hardly. If you were paying attention you might have noticed my top suspect is mrfixij.

I regard your last two pages of babble as inconsequential. If your top suspect is mrfixij, why aren't you pressing a case against him? If you have made your mind up, why argue against a deadline?

What is so difficult about a decision now?

I just think no lynch is the correct play here, and evidently you agree since you are also voting for no lynch. If you don't agree, you shouldn't be voting for no lynch in the first place.

What are you arguing about now? Where have I said that I did not agree with nolynch?

Btw, Alduskkel is the only person I'm voting today.

This only reinforces my fears that you are getting tunnel vision.

Your constant demonstration of faith in my towniness is heartwarming.

[springlullaby]

EBWOP, bold mine below, ignore above.

Why the request for deadline, SL?

Why the not request for deadline, Aldy?

Answer the question, SL. That's a non-answer right there.

No, you ask a question that I do not feel to be justified, I am throwing the ball right back at you. Beside my questions present a direct answer to your post, I believe that it's time for people make up their mind, and also explain that it's not a hard thing to do given the options.

You have been posting inconsequential zlurp for 2 pages now without a hint of making your mind up.

Hardly. If you were paying attention you might have noticed my top suspect is mrfixij.

I regard your last two pages of babble as inconsequential. If your top suspect is mrfixij, why aren't you pressing a case against him? If you have made your mind up, why argue against a deadline?

What is so difficult about a decision now?

I just think no lynch is the correct play here, and evidently you agree since you are also voting for no lynch. If you don't agree, you shouldn't be voting for no lynch in the first place.

What are you arguing about now? Where have I said that I did not agree with nolynch?

Btw, Alduskkel is the only person I'm voting today.

This only reinforces my fears that you are getting tunnel vision.

Your constant demonstration of faith in my towniness is heartwarming.

[springlullaby]

Btw, Alduskkel is the only person I'm voting today.

This only reinforces my fears that you are getting tunnel vision.

Your constant demonstration of faith in my towniness is heartwarming.

Exactly what I'm talking about right here. You literally turn every sentence I say into a scum tell, and I will now use my paranormal powers (as you remarked upon earlier) to decipher something...

hmm

yes

You will indeed turn at least one sentence in this post against me somehow.

This argument is really scummy in itself. I can damn well point out how everything you are saying is scummy if it is the case.

Here arise the question of whether you agree with me or not. Which lead us to the very queer situation of you seemingly finding my scummy since you criticizes me any occasion you get, but at the same time saying that you think I'm town.

The explanation to your behavior is quite simple. You do not wish to attack me overtly now for fear of appearing OMGUS but cannot risk not countering me, hence you try to make yourself appears as a poor victim of unrelenting attacks and dismiss them as tunnel visions.

If you have qualm with my attacks, please do more than whine by, for example, presenting why you think my attacks are unjustified in the first place.

[springlullaby]

Why the request for deadline, SL?

Why the not request for deadline, Aldy?

Answer the question, SL. That's a non-answer right there.

No, you ask a question that I do not feel to be justified, I am throwing the ball right back at you. Beside my questions present a direct answer to your post, I believe that it's time for people make up their mind, and also explain that it's not a hard thing to do given the options.

I just don't like how you're trying to cut off the day and get to the night ASAP.

Translation, 'I'm so town because I are against deadline!'.

Only your argument against deadline is not valid in the first place. Cut off discussion? What discussion?
Then consider what can possibly change even if the discussion is cut off short. The answer is nothing.
Because: do I need to remind you that you and I both are voting no-lynch, and that there isn't a wagon anywhere near a lynch at the mometn?

You have been posting inconsequential zlurp for 2 pages now without a hint of making your mind up.

Hardly. If you were paying attention you might have noticed my top suspect is mrfixij.

I regard your last two pages of babble as inconsequential. If your top suspect is mrfixij, why aren't you pressing a case against him? If you have made your mind up, why argue against a deadline?

A lot of what I have been saying has been defending from you. I have been dutifully answering your accusations; how is that inconsequential babble?

Your babble is inconsequential because you have done nothing to convict someone for two pages. Answering accusation is not an excuse to do nothing but trying to prove that you are town.

What is so difficult about a decision now?

I just think no lynch is the correct play here, and evidently you agree since you are also voting for no lynch. If you don't agree, you shouldn't be voting for no lynch in the first place.

What are you arguing about now? Where have I said that I did not agree with nolynch?

You wanted to lynch me but since my bandwagon wasn't gaining steam you went with no lynch. (Post 855). Hence my assumption that you preferred a lynch of me as opposed to No Lynch.

This paragraph is plain nonsensical arguing. I ask again, what are you on about now? What was the accusation in the first place?

[springlullaby]

If the mod is any good he'll force a kill.

Alduskkel: I'm noting your flagrante bad faith in dismissing my attacks, and the somewhat good tactical approach in stroking my lazy bone. But don't worry, I'll do a summary on you if I live

[springlullaby]

Btw, Alduskkel is the only person I'm voting today.

Actually, you're voting No-Lynch atm. And what IS with the rush to end the day?

BM

I explained why I was voting nolynch over Alduskkel even if I prefer an Aldy lynch.

I also explained why I asked for a deadline. And between you and me, you are not one to call me on it, Mr I don't post for days while being active elsewhere.

[springlullaby]

Why now?

In all seriousness, I'm debating whether I should answer this question honestly. But this being a newbie game, 4 reasons:

1) Because I'm too lazy right now.
2) I don't think I can move the lynch today anyway for reasons previously cited.
3) I'm actually looking forward to the info of the NK. And if I'm NK'd, I would have wasted my time because of the wifom factor.
4) I'm regenerating my town creds. This is what I have been doing all day, this post included. If I live, I will be in a better position to lynch you tomorrow. As there is little doubt in my mind that you will be alive tomorrow

Plus, in case no kill so happen again, the only valid question is 'why now' indeed, as nothing would have changed.

[springlullaby]

Rushing the day toward nolynch, oh my the crime.

[springlullaby]

And by morning she gave off a smell.

I resent that. Don't tell me 'smell' is the only rhyme you could come up with.

From my grave, I swear, you will pay.

[springlullaby]

Guess who's luck out of luck?

Unvote, Vote: Alduskkel

[springlullaby]

I think Vollkan copied the entire post that the last votecount was on and added that to my post when he put the new votecount up there. That freaked me out too. The first sentence is mine, everything after that got copied.

Well, either Aldy is scum, or something is weird here. The only one not voting him is the guy I think is scum, so if Aldy was town, MLF would hammer anyways. Yet I'm still reluctant to vote. Spring, has anything happened since you died that was interesting to you at all? Who's Aldy's buddy if he's scum?

You baby.

[springlullaby]

CF Riot: It could be that I'm not being hammered because both SL and BM are scum. Or MLF just hasn't tuned in to hammer me.

Anyway, it might seem like I tellingly slipped up in the CF Riot conversation with SL, but I have "slipped up" before as Town, which SL should know since she was in that game too. Specifically, post 146 in Newbie 681, which is now over. I was Vanilla Town, as I am now.

There's a huge flaw in your argument MM... I would only be giving the scum less targets if I wasn't scum in the first place!

It feels like this is happening all over again.

I'd really like to hear why you guys are suspicious of me, everyone acts like SL has proven without a shadow of a doubt that I am scum, yet she has yet to even state her full case.

All I'm asking is that you don't hammer me and allow me to defend against the accusations against me. However, I'm not quite clear as to what those accusations are; for all I know, everyone has different reasons for voting for me. I remember asking SL for her full case against me, but she didn't offer it because it would create WIFOM if she was killed at Night (which she was). Now that she's back, and the game is on the brink of ending, I think it's time that she, and everyone else who is suspicious of me, state their full case and allow me to at least try and defend against it.

I'm still lazy, and would like it much better if I didn't have to put the effort into writing anything. If people really want it, I can write the case though.

Here I'll just note that the 'I've slipped before' is a crappy defense. And I think that at this conjuncture in time and in your situation, you sound way too nice and patient to be town.

[springlullaby]

Yes there is a reason, I think Alduskkel is scum. Your 'putting the game on the line' is full of caca, at somepoint decisions must be taken, I took mine before becoming a cold and smelly corpse. No unvoting, either I'm right or I'm right. No talking, I already had enough of it before dying. "Asking to be the hammer", what rot.

[springlullaby]

Alright, the following is almost modkill worthy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 92#1489092

Overcompensation, for one.

How so?

SL: That's just because you think I'm scum in another game.

So, the above was posted after Alduskkel's last reply in this very game, which means after he saw that I had replaced in.

This game is the only game I'm with Alduskkel.

Alduskkel has professed suspicions on Crysnia aka Mrfixij II aka your servant.

Yet he posted the above out of thread, suggesting that I was genuine in my suspicions.

Now, Aldy, please explain how you know once again that I'm town.

[springlullaby]

Interesting that we go from this:

Not that it was addressed to me, rulebreaking is a possible scumtell in my books because scum generally feel more under pressure to perform and prove that they are town..

To this:

Alright, the following is almost modkill worthy.

SL, explain the change in heart.

What change of heart?

Schez breaks the rule: I suspect her for the reason described.

Aldi breaks the rule, kinda: I suspected him already anyway, but what's more interesting is that the content of his rulebreaking is a scumslip in itself, so I posted it in all its glory.

Right now I don't even want to bother writing anything because Aldusskel is just so bloody obviously scum it makes me roll my eyes.

But I'll do it when I have more time, by the weekend if you people have not yet wizened up and hammered.

OMG, I'm so confused now. Aldy, who do you think the scums are? (I know I'm being repetitive, sorry.) Why?

BM, who's Aldy's partner? (Assuming Aldy is scum.)

Depending on these answers, I may have some questions for SL and MLF too, but I'd appreciate it if no one answer for anyone else.

Hehe, look at scum preparing the NK.

[springlullaby]

Sorry, but that's just dumb.

So CF, how do you propose to talk yourself out of this one?

[springlullaby]

Ok just to make sure.

Moses, who did you protect last night.

[springlullaby]

Not quite sure what to make of the lack of kill. Seems likely that scum would simply have killed MLF, who is now confirmed by the death of Alduskkel. It's possible that they tried to kill someone else, who MLF protected, or simply intentionally didnt kill anyone. In either case, CF Riot seems suspicious, given that i find it hard to see a Mafia Goon being willing to let his Roleblocker die, when it would confirm a Doctor. In fact, the No-Kill fits too- CF Riot-scum would be on very dodgy ground in an endgame with SL and myself.

Yeh, i'm leaning strongly towards CF being our last scumbag, but it'd be good to hear from Moses first.

BM

How are you 'leaning strongly' toward Cf being the last scum?

Moses didn't hammer you. I didn't hammer you. The only possibility left from your pov is CF. How did you manage to miss that?

That said, I just see no reason why BMscum would have choosen no kill or to target me. I don't see BM choosing to make that first no kill either.

On the other hand CF could have chosen the no kill because, when everything's looking bad already, a bit of wifom can't hurt, and a consensus of three townie is harder to reach than one of two.

------------

CF, if you want me to even consider BM as scum, write your case now. I can tell you right now that your margin of manoeuvre with me is at about non-existent + 0,01 ; but can always try.

[springlullaby]

Right.

Vote CF Riot

1. So you did try to kill me then.

2. If you were town, you'd be trying harder.

-----------------------

SL: Good catch with BM not noticing that you didn't hammer him while you had the chance. What do you make of his response?

It is as ok as it can be.

Moses, please hammer.

[springlullaby]

Oh man. I'm glad I didn't write a 'all the reasons why CF is scum'. Funny thing is that last night no kill was a really intelligent move, because I wasn't half as set on CF going into night as it appeared. But the no-kill actually made CF looks worse especially after he said he would had killed me. And it didn't help that no defense is pretty much my kind of defense when I'm scum in lylo.

In regards to BM' scumslip, CF commited exactly the same in his first post today so I didn't give it much attention.

[springlullaby]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52#1489352

The post above is actually the one I found scummiest from CF, it just looked a lot like coaching and I somehow figured that if CF was scum, he would be the kinda 'honourable' scum who would try to help his newbie buddy all he could instead of bussing them unceremoniously.

[springlullaby]

And yeah, BM, no glory to you, lurkerscum.

Alduskkel played, at least.

[springlullaby]

Huh, making slanderous limerick toward my person and not even bothering to read your game :p

On the subject of replacement, I don't really like the fact that the two players brought back were NK's. It's better to bring vanilla lynchees back if one must IMO as their deaths is generally more neutral.

[springlullaby]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52#1489352

Ha, I

was

coaching. I thought he was town. ALL GAME. This was like, a personal low for me as far as finding scum goes. Pan and BM set off flags on my initial read of the game, but by D2 BM just sank further and further down the list and I was seeing ghost scum everywhere.

1. That's why newbies are ebul. You think they are just awkward, wet behind the ears cutelings who need your wise and magnanimous guidance. You give them your trust. And they turn out to be backstabbing, agenda driven little vermin, as bloodthirsty if not more as any regular player.

2. This game prove once more that, for a townie, instinctual gut-twisting hatred for lurkers is a prime virtue.

[springlullaby]

2. This game prove once more that, for a townie, instinctual gut-twisting hatred for lurkers is a prime virtue.

Why?

I had BM on my 'dar too, before his vanishing act made him slowly slide the background.

Btw Aldusskel, reading the scum QT, I think you are a pretty good scum strategist and communicates well in night talk. With just a little more practice at avoiding the most common day game pitfalls, you could be really good scum.