Newbie 682 - Mayhem in Umore - Game Over, Scum Win!

[dejkha]

/confirmz0rz

[dejkha]

It seems like Nureins could be onto something.

Vote: Mirth

[dejkha]

Lol, well I need some kind of lead. Otherwise I don't wanna be making a completely random vote. Even if I'm tricked into lynching a towns person, I don't wanna end up lynching that person because I closed my eyes and picked a random person =P

Unless I'm missing something else I could go by lol.

[dejkha]

However, we need to disentangle if Dej is simply a total noob. Notice that he is suggesting in his answer that Day 1 is gonna finish quickly with random votes' stage...

Yeah, to me it doesn't seem like, on Day 1, most votes aren't influenced by anything since the game just started. I figured I'd go with any possible lead rather than taking an "eeny meeny miny moe" route. Obviously, I think I just learned that suspicion can arise easier than I thought lol.

[dejkha]

vote:dejkha

this vote should be obvious as it is *not* random. Placing a third vote on me on page 1 saying Nuereins has a lead before I even responded and then saying you don't want to accidentally lynch town.

I don't wanna accidently lynch town because of a random vote. I'd much rather it be because of a mistake I made with the reason I went with (nureins post). Even though it seems like you did explain yourself, I'm gonna take even the smallest lead I can get. If I unvote, I'll be right back to a mostly random vote. If someone else gives me a reason to suspect them, then I'll change my vote, but until then I won't.

I'd rather accidentally lynch town because of bad judgement in my reasoning, than because I didn't like someones face or something ridiculous like that >_>

In any event, it doesn't really seem to matter since there seems to be no convincing any of you.

[dejkha]

I might consider your behavior slightly suspicious because you lured me into a sort of trap and now everyones against me. It's hard to tell if you're scum and trying to turn everyone against me or if it was an innocent act of suspicion. Those kind of cancel each other out, but I may end up changing my vote to you, if I'm convinced.

[dejkha]

I know you weren't targeting me or anything. I meant in general, since it was kind of a set up to see if someone would go along with it. Since I did, everyone's all over me. As I said earlier, I can't tell if it was an innocent act of suspicion or if you're scum and was trying to use that to turn the rest against a certain person. I'll need more time to judge. Even if I do end up changing my vote to you, you'll be all over me for that to, thinking its a OMGUS vote.

[dejkha]

Since you ask for a comparison

0. Not reading carefully

- Not a very relevant thing yet, but scummies tend to read less than townies, as they dont need to find the scum.

I've read everything so far. It was mostly because a lot of it was directed at me, at least at first anyway.

1. Wagoning where most people is smelling just to be part of the mass.

- Wagons Mirth
- When he sees it is a mistake, wagons me

I didn't do it just because Mirth wasn't "popular" though.

2. Justifying by lieing

- When he defends in front of Mirth accusation, he says that he agrees with the points made my people.
- But obviously, he voted for Mirth without reading the thread and jumped over her. Only after reading the thread he realized there was some smelling over me and jumped again. Just to be with the crowd, as he said, not because he agreed with the reasons !!

I didn't vote Mirth just to be with the crowd, but I personally agreed with your post that started all this near the beginning.

4. OMGUS reaction to Mirth.

- He fosses her as a consequence of her accusations, which are quite fair.
- The Fos is based on the false defense (3).

It seems to me like Mirth is having the OMGUS reaction. No offense Mirth, but you do seem to get pretty angry anytime anyone votes for you (and anytime someone so much as responds to something you say), whether its with a reason or not.

I'm gonna go ahead and

Unvote: Mirth

because even though she seems to be all over anyone defies her, I think that may because she's a townie. Maybe it's all just an act of scum, but I'll take my chances.

I seem to recall hearing we don't have to vote. Is that true, because I think I'll skip it this time around.

[dejkha]

Only scummies and very very noob ones ask for no-lynch in first round...
Im yet trying to decide what you are, but the fact that you ask for a no-lynch when seb456 is showing his scumness so openly is very suspicious to me...

No, it's just that due to Mirth's... aggression toward being voted against, I dont think scum would do something like that. Unless it is just about her personality, then either way, it would be the same thing I guess. I'm just waiting to see about Seb myself. It just seemed like he was a newbie under pressure (in which I can relate), but then he said

I would like to say that if I die, I forgive everyone that voted for me.

The evidence was there. It was all there. Doesn't matter how, but it is.

I don't know... that just has me under suspicion. Saying "all the evidence is there" and what not. IMO he seems like a tough one to read, because on one hand he could just be giving up since everyone seems to be all over him or he's scum that's made a few mistakes and is just trying ways to make us believe otherwise, such as hoping he getskilled one way or another.

[dejkha]

Dej, I'm aggressive about everything, pretty much. This is not a town tell. This is a matter of playstyle. So don't count me out just yet.

Oh ok. Since that's the case, I'll keep my eye on you and Seb.

I think that mirth chuck and seb are all being suspicious and that

dej is just plain stupid

!

Better than being suspicious, I guess. Lol.

[dejkha]

@Dej:

1. You jumped over Mirth's wagon with almost no reason for. (already discussed)
2. You were very reluctant to abbandon Mirth's vote.

- You even said " I'm gonna take even the smallest lead I can get. If I unvote, I'll be right back to a mostly random vote. "
- You entered several discussions about Mirth, even if it was pretty clear that Mirth's case was a kind of joke.

3. But if you are gonna use anything to base your cases, because you dont want to randomize, why havent you even considered Seb?

1. Mhm
2. Thats was before I realized we didn't have to vote, so I felt that Mirth cleared things up a bit. As I said earlier though, I'm still keeping an eye on her and Seb for anything else suspicious.
3. As I said in 2) I'm keeping my eye on Seb. IMO, he's a tough one to read because of his inconsisant behavior and even though he's done quite a few scummy things, it may be because he's a newbie and might be a townie. It's not like all the mistakes he's made means he's scum. He may be a newbie that screwed up. I'm continuing to analyze his posts.

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

Wow. What the hell kind of request is that? Not only does it seem like a random choice to me, but I doubt anyone will try to lynch him based on a request even if you turned out to be innocent.

The bit in Italic, I find quite interesting. Do you think that Dej and Seb are Scumbuddies? The thing is, if he was scum wouldn't he try and "distance" ,i think it is, from his scumbuddy. Don't scum sometimes do that? That is kinda a question to anyone who knows really. I find that quite interesting. Maybe he is just a noob mafia who wants to keep his scumbuddy or a clever Mafia who is using "WIFOM?", or he is just town who doesn't think Seb is scummy.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just not sure about Seb yet. I don't know if he is really scum of if he's a townie going through a worse case of what I had before when I voted for Mirth and he's just freaking out. So I wouldn't say that I don't think he's scummy, but he's definitely not in the clear.

@Seb: You're sounding rather cocky lately. As if once the attention's off you and have evidence against someone else you'll be forgotten about. You fail to realize that you wont be in the clear because people will remember what you've said and will continue to notice in the future.

As for myself and who I suspect; I suspect nearly everyone, but with the exception of Seb, they're mostly all for

very

loose reasons.

[dejkha]

I've been reading everything. I just can't find anything to respond to outside of Chuck's impatience which, IMO, isn't very suspicious since I'm impatient also, I just don't go telling the Mod to start prodding everyone that hasn't posted. But in a way, his constant apologizing may be to make sure he stays on everyone's good side.

[dejkha]

FOS: Chuck

@Chuck: To be honest, the whole thing with nureins and his questions, which he said you haven't answered, seems a little confusing to me. I don't know if you two resolved that yet, but if not, why don't you take the time to answer them all in a single post to sort this out.

It does seem rather scummy to vote nureins supposedly to see if he got angry. I'm just not buying it. Especially since after he didn't get angry you said he was likely pro-town and then said you thought he was scum only a few posts later. Of course calling him an asshole doesn't help and is unnecessary.

[dejkha]

FOS: Chuck

I don't know if you two resolved that yet, but if not, why don't you take the time to answer them all in a single post to sort this out.

Please clarify to me:

- You do not know if WE resolved that because you are lost or
- You are not interested in OUR one-to-one debate.

If it is the first, you can ask and Im planning to do a summary, as I announced.
If it is the second, why ?

Yeah, I meant that I was lost. It kind of confused me since, from what I remember, Chuck kept saying he already answered and you were misreading his posts. But you kept saying he didn't answer. I didn't realized you said you would make a summary, but that should help clear things up for me

Chuck, assuming your are scum, why would you just give in? As said already, it is rather unfair to everyone else in the game. As frusterating as it can be at times, you should still go with it instead of just saying "Go ahead and lynch me, I don't care anymore."

If Chuck is scum there appears that there is only a few ways this can play out. I actually have to go with Nur on the matter of Mirth being Chucks scumbuddy. That's because earlier Chuck claimed Nur to be his scumbuddy, but now he's saying he won't give away his scumbuddy. It seems that Chuck was trying to take Nur down with him as a result of "twisting his words" and putting him under pressure, but ended up giving away that Nur isn't his scumbuddy.

And Mirth appears to be freaking out over the possibility of Chucks scumbuddy being revealed (even though it can ruin the game).

[dejkha]

Chuck is also scene defending Mirth way back on page 2 (i think)

Town

Me- Because I know i'm pro-town.
Mirth/Caf- Both posting alot of quite helpfull evidence. Imo the most, apart from me =P, town like people.

@Chucky, juust wait. You'll die eventualy. And its obvious that both Mirth and Nuriens are gonna die 2 & 3. 1 ov ems gonna be scum. I personaly thing its Mirth but thats juust a homage to my first post, and coz Mirth omgused me even when i took back my vote. I guess that this game is set. I cant

SMURFING

BELIEVE I WONT DIE, ITS A MIRACLE. I bet my life its 1 of dem anyway. Have fun in hell you mafia

SMURFS

. without the vowels, its not swearing

Seb, as I've said a few pages ago, don't think just because the attention off you that you're still not a suspect. In the event that Mirth isn't scum, and you're still alive, you'll turn to number one on my list. I still remember everything you've done that made you seem scummy earlier. Also, Chuck taking a similar appraoch to you when under pressure doesn't help you either (telling everyone to lynch you).

I'm still not sure how to take that hunch you had waaaay back near the middle, i think, when you said you have a gut feeling that Chuck is scum before he became particularly suspicious.

[dejkha]

Dej, you think that is its possible for Seb and Chuck to be partners? Why?

I never thought of them as "partners", so that's not particularly why I think Seb is scum. Seb was my first real suspect and that was because he did things like lie and didn't pay attention or read everything (he admitted to all of these). I've also noticed the many OMGUS votes on his side. So, in the event that you're not Chuck's partner, Seb will be the next one I'll suspect. I also think that fact that Seb and Chuck have similar reactions to pressure, such as claiming they want to die, doesn't help him at all.

[dejkha]

In the likely event that I am shown townie, I wouuld like to know who you will execute.

Mod:Votecount (and soz for swearing wont happen again)

Im goin school for six hours, cya

The vote count hasn't changed since the mod updated it.

[dejkha]

Dej, let me try reframing my question. You think I am scum because of my supposed connection to Chuck, yes? Namely early coaching and my reaction to his claim. This is correct, yes? Thus you think that Chuck and I are partners because of this.

Not "because of" that, but yes that help in making the decision quite a bit.

Would you think I was definately scum if Chuck had not admitted himself to be? Probably not.

Correct. It would have only been evidence that you could be scum. Since Chuck is supposedly scum, I'm taking your behavior as... communication between partners (not sure how I would phrase what I was trying to say). If Chuck is not scum, then I will reconsider and just keep an eye on you for any other scummy behavior.

My question here is this: yes, Seb is scummy and his play has been poor, but do you think that poor play from both of them is enough to connect them as partners? Do you see any other links, like you see with me and Chuck, that makes you think they're scum together?

The thing with Seb is that he was one of the first ones I suspected, so I'm not linking him to Chuck based on their interactions with each other (like I am doing more of with you), but rather his individual scummy behavior earlier. The only thing I can see linking them as partners is their similar reaction when under pressure. If Chuck didn't claim he was scum, I still would have suspected Seb, but I would yet to have any real idea of who his partner would be.

I hope that answered your question. If not, sorry. I know what you mean I just wasn't able to word it properly.

NOW ASK YOURSELVES THIS, WOULD A TOWNIE POST THIS?

I would suggest not making statements like that, since it doesn't help you at all

I am saying that when you lynch me, the next logical step is *not* Seb, as Dej suggests. It is you.

That's what I don't understand. Why nureins? Maybe I'm just missing why you suspect him. The only thing I could find myself suspecting him for is when Chuck said nureins was his partner, but I already said why that's unlikely. If you'd like to make a post explaining to me (or tell me where you said it) why you suspect him, please do.

[dejkha]

I'm not really suspicious of Nur because it seems like he was the one that pressured Chuck the most until he cracked. To me it looks like Chuck only said Nur to take him down with him as revenge or something since after that he says like he won't tell us who his partner is. I doubt that's only what he wants us to think.

But for all we now, Fancy and the person that needs to be replaced could be scum. We've heard little to nothing from them, so I don't think we should rule them out completely no matter how guilty anyone else appears.

[dejkha]

Sorry I haven't been around for a couple weeks. I had something going on that took up nearly all of my free time since I last posted. Seems like not much has gone on in that time anyway.

From the look of it Fancy must've been a lucky kill. As Corv said, Fancy only made a few posts, so I can't imagine it was an intentional cop kill. I'm also inclined to agree with Zeppo with the NK inetentionally being someone other than Mirth or Nur. Once one of them was killed, the other would've likely been lynched.

So either neither of them are scum and killing them both off leaves the rest of us looking deeper into the argument and how other people reacted to it or one of them is scum and killing off Fancy just stalled since, as of now, it seems like Nur and Mirth are the next 2 to go.

I would appear that the scum accidently hit two birds with one stone: Killing the Cop (and keeping him from finding out the Nur/Mirth situation)while prolonging the Nur/Mirth suspicion.

As for Nur trying to kill off Chuck to loss dead weight, it seems more unlikely to me that it would happen on Day 1 in a newbie. This is my first game, so obviously it may be more common than I think, but it would seem like a waste.

Here's my suspicion list from most to least suspicious

Mirth
Nur
Seb
Corvuus (based off Avacado)
Zeppo (mostly nuetral as of now. almost no posts to make a decision)
Caf

Mirth and Nur are close on that list, so I still looking into it. Caf hasn't shown any scummy behavior that I can remember and his post have been rather informative and helpful.

[dejkha]

dej; if scum is smart [or either me or nur], then you are perfectly right here. keeping the two of us alive is the only correct move. what is disturbing is how nur kept saying that scum-me would kill him off at night. this disturbs me because if you, as a much newer player, can understand the dynamic here, nur should have been able to get it long before you.

He should've gotten it before me, especially since saying that you killing him would get you lynched next, if you did so.(if you are scum). It seems obvious to me, that if either or you are scum, that all it takes is a NK to the other for the scum to be revealed. Zeppo see's why it's obvious also. I'm not sure if Nur didn't see this coming or if he was just so certain you'd kill him off since he's at your throat, but I'm curious to hear from Nur on this. Nur, did you even think of this or were you sure you'd be the NK?

On the case of Chucks scumbuddy, I got to thinking, maybe he so easily gave up because his scumbuddy wasn't posting. Meaning, maybe Corvuus or Zeepo (Mr Avacado stopped posting before chuck outted himself). IMO, neither of them is a FOS yet because they haven't given us to much to go by and this Mir/Nur situation seems to be thecenter of attention

Mirth and Nur, your deaths might be inevitable unless you show us that you're not scum or if someone else screws up in a bigger way. Most of us (including myself) have shown some sort of scummy behavior, but I really don't want to waste my time trying to decide which of you two to lynch (as the top two FOS') if you're both pro-town. In other words, I don't wanna go down this road just for it to turn out to be a dead end.

Nur, you seem to be so certain of Mirth's scummyness that it doesn't seem like you're even trying to find anyone else, but Mirth appears to be open minded still. From what I understand, you're one of her primary suspects, but not to the point where she'll blindly vote you.

[dejkha]

dej 397; im going to say something that nur will surely take out of context here, but if i were scum, i wouldn't even dream of killing him after yesterday's exchange. to off someone just because they suspect you is poor strategy. especially when theres a good change to get them lynched.

Exactly. I think it goes without saying that if one of you were NKed, then the other would've been lynched, thus making it a bad move if either of you are scum.

At this point I would like to hear Mirth's thought on who she sees (other than Nureins) as likely scum. I would also like to hear more from Dej, Seb and Caf on what they think of the possible Mirth lynch and also their thoughts on myself and Corvuus since there wasn't much to go on from Day 1.

As I said earlier, seeing how things are going, it would be bad if they were both lynched/NKed and neither of them were scum. They both have a fairly high amount of suspicion on them from most people, from what I gather. Mirth being lynched, would likely mean that Nur is next and hopefully it would end by that time.

As for you and Corv, neither of you seem very scummy to me and you're both active participants in the game, so that's good.

Mirth:
So why didn't you claim doc (whether you are townie or mafia)?

That would be a huge problem if she is just a normal townie. Claiming doc would likely make the real doc to reveal himself in order to get the lynch and win the game. But the problem is, claiming doc (as a townie) would bring out the real doc and more than likely get him NKed in the process.

[dejkha]

except you're misrepresenting what i said about caf entirely. he has been rather bleh and fence-sitty in his posts, which is why i think he should be at least watched and not written off like you're doing now. unless you know for a fact he's town.

I agree. While I do see Caf as a pro-town player, his "fence-sitting" shouldn't be ignored. It would be wise to keep him in mind rather than writing him off as pro-town

I still don't like the 'chain' voting that we are doing.

I.e.

We hang mirth.

If wrong, then we hang Nur.

If wrong, then we hang rand(player), etc.

I think we should stay away from "spin the bottle" mafia where we hang based on that.

So I think seb, caf, and the rest of us (including myself!!!) should say what we think if Mirth isn't scum. Just in case so we have something to think about for tomorrow.

I also agree with the "chain voting" comment. As I said before, I dont want us to end up lyncing Mirth and Nur only for it to get us nowhere. I think we should keep the day going a little longer to see if its possible to sort this out a bit.

As for if Mirth isn't scum, then we'll probably end up doing what you explained above that. Here's the worst outcome from both situations. If we lynch Mirth then lynch Nur and they're both innocent, then it was a waste and made things worse. If we lynch Mir and she's innocent and then we dont lynch Nur, then he could turn out to be scum. So if Mir isn't scum, our next move could be a bad one.

Have to say, I buy nureins' defence that he wouldn't just bus his scumbuddy out of the blue.

Short quote, but that's also what I've been saying. Especially since Chucks later posts make it even less possible that he was serious.

dejkha

A couple of incriminating things here. dejkha is a bit lenient on Chuck during his suspicious phase - see post 232:

I've been reading everything. I just can't find anything to respond to outside of Chuck's impatience which, IMO, isn't very suspicious since I'm impatient also, I just don't go telling the Mod to start prodding everyone that hasn't posted. But in a way, his constant apologizing may be to make sure he stays on everyone's good side.

He escalates the suspicion in 257 with an FoS, but that old accusation of "coaching" can once again be leveled here, as he does give Chuck advice on how to redeem himself.

FOS: Chuck

@Chuck: To be honest, the whole thing with nureins and his questions, which he said you haven't answered, seems a little confusing to me. I don't know if you two resolved that yet, but if not, why don't you take the time to answer them all in a single post to sort this out.

After Chuck's admission, he naturally calls for his lynch. This is possible scum buddy behaviour - trying to undetectedly remain lenient/neutral on the scum in case the pressure falls off them, then coming down hard when there is no longer any chance of the pressure being relieved.

At the time, Nur was claiming Chuck wasn't answering his questions, so I ask Chuck, if that was the case, to answer them so it would get sorted out. If he was pro-town like he claimed it would've only helped his cause. As far as I remember, I dont think I acted eager to get him lynched (if I did, quote it please). I wanted him lynched after his admission, because he admitted it and if it was true, no information could be gained without the possibility of it being false.

Today, dej seems to be undecided as to whether nur or Mirth is scum. Is that the case, dej?

Depends on how you mean. Since Mirth explained to me in day one why Nureins was suspicious, I've suspected him more than previously. I still think the probability of Mir being scum is higher, but I'm not certain.

Dej seems to be fence sitting and not getting too involved in any real discussions (this is what I would be doing if two townies were ripping into each other and I wasn't a suspect).

What do you mean when you say "real discussions"? I may not be posting as much as I used to to, but I respond to anything I have an opinion on.

[dejkha]

@Dej, do you have an opinion on what is happening then, because any info is good info (by good I do not mean truthful, I just mean it can help us understand)

What do you mean "on what is happening"? I thought I was sharing an opinion on it, but I guess its not what you meant. What happening would you like me to share my views on?

DEJKHA

- CAF'S comment on 232 and 257 are basically correct. Dej was fence-sitting there.

I guess I think of fence sitting differently than others =P Whatever, no big deal.

- Dej's position on me is clearly ambiguous. Dej says that Mirth comments on my suspicions are a reason to consider me something scummy. Ill remember here the reasons of Mirth in that post.

1. the MAIN factor for suspecting me is Chuck's claim that I am his partner. However, Dej says that he doesnt find this as a reason to find me suspicious.

2. A second factor was that Mirth considered me to wish linking her to chuck too much. As far as I can see, Dej is "buying" the argument that Mirth was connected to Chuck in the way I suggested. Caf and Corvuus are reproducing and expanding these connections in their cases. And Dej is accepting this point as the main reason to vote Mirth.

3. Mirth suggested that I twisted her words. Dej has not commented this issue at all.

@Dej: Can you tell me why do you find me suspicious ? Which of Mirth's argument you buy to consider me suspicious?

Actually, it was the the third point. And also, seeing how you reacted to Mirths reaction to Chuck outting himself. You seemed to be pushing the the near certainty of her being scum. It upped my suspicion of you, but I still think Mirth is more likely to be scum.

Dej agrees too much with Mirth without explaining the reasons. Another recent example happens with Caf. This is suspicious, as he could be setting up new cases for the future, supported by Mirth innocence if this were the case.

I agree. While I do see Caf as a pro-town player, his "fence-sitting" shouldn't be ignored. It would be wise to keep him in mind rather than writing him off as pro-town

Ambiguity again, but remarking the fence-sitting. Might you give references of this fence-sitting ?

It seemed to me like I explained why I agreed with the Caf fence-sitting. I dont see the problem with agreeing with her (or anyone) on some aspects. Maybe you think it would be better if I only said when I disagree, but when I agree with an opinion I reinforce it, I dont stay silent about it.

I mean what I said you seem to pick around the edges of most conversations and never do much that can be seen as controversial.

Maybe you could give me examples of controversial topics I haven't commented on. I personally dont see anything of the sort.

I am also curios to see what seb's hunch is all about on me.

A hunch is normally based on nothing. But the last time he had a hunch about scum, he was right. Obviously doesn't mean anything, just thought it was funny.

I had a thought last night and want to hear what others think of it. While I am happy to see us become less myopic in our discussions of guilt I also feel we might be doing more harm than good at this point in the game. First consider this if Mirth is indeed innocent and we continue or discussions of who we consider guilty and or innocent we are also giving the scum amongst us more info on who the correct NK should be all he or she has to do is wait for us to come to some sort of consensus on who we find the most Townish and eliminate that person. Instead maybe we should end this day and start tomorrow looking for a lynch so we don't give the scum any more ammo. What do you guys think?

I dont agree with this. We're finally kind of getting somewhere, in my opinion. The focus has eased off of Nur and Mirth. I think we should continue with the day a little longer at least. That's just me though...

[dejkha]

Seb, WTH? Whether you're scum or townie, you're pretty much dead right now, even if you come up with some crazy reason as to why you claimed Doc. No offense, but that was a stupid move that doesn't help either side.

As of now, I plan on voting for Seb, but I dont want anyone to hammer so I'm holding it back for now. Corvuus, I'm also curious to know who you protected during the first night.

[dejkha]

Seb and I die, and the game moves on.

Actually, unless someone else claims Doc, then one of you wont have to die, I dont think.

[dejkha]

Seb, Corvuus may be scum, but he wouldn't counterclaim if he wasn't the real Doc (if he's smart). There would be no point. Whether or not you're just incredibly noobie scum or a suicidal townie, you're probably getting lynched first. Corvuus never said he would save himself, I dont think. Even if he did, that doesn't mean he's not the real Doctor. I'm gonna have to side with Corv on this one.

[dejkha]

I'd rather wait to hear sebs input, but otherwise I guess it doesnt really matter.

[dejkha]

For someone who repeatedly told us to lynch you, you say you're not suicidal? If you're a vanilla townie, I doubt anyone will lynch Cor unless someone else claims Doc.

[dejkha]

Alrighty then.

Vote: Seb

[dejkha]

Honestly, I dont know how to answer that. I don't remember doing anything noticibly helpful such as Nur's push that seems to have made Chuck reveal himself, but I've generally been trying to prove my non scumminess throughout the game. It's really for you to decide whether or not I'm considered scum to you. There's not to many reasons I can give that would surely persuade you, I don't think.

[dejkha]

While I also thought there was something off about Seb claiming doc, I wasn't sure if he was actually scum. I think, as everyone else noticed, there was absolutely no good reason to claim doc whether he was town or scum. So I think the chances of him being scum were the same as the chances of him being pro town. Before the counterclaim, that is.

[dejkha]

I dont wanna seem like I'm rushing or anything, but I might just go ahead and vote if some sort of discussion doesn't get going. Seems like its getting slow at this point.

[dejkha]

As of now, yes.

[dejkha]

If Mirth turns out to be town, I'm probably gonna end up voting Nur tomorrow. Caf and Zep seem more pro town than him in my eyes. I'll be observing Caf and Zep until that time (hopefully more of a discussion will arise tomorrow), but after what happened yesterday, if Nur is scum, I don't wanna bare the thought of letting him get out alive.

Unless someone slips up, that'll likely be my course of action.

[dejkha]

I meant, if some sort of discussion doesn't start. As Caf pointed out, we weren't left with much to go on, but I'm hoping tomorrow will be more active. As far as I know, there's only so much I can ask people if there's nothing going on.

Vote: Mirth

Now all it needs is a hammer. Anyone else have anything to add or comment on?

[dejkha]

You both seem mostly pro town to me, Caf more than Zep. I'll elaborate later night or tomorrow after I've gone back to read through the game.

[dejkha]

Ugh, Zeppo needs a replacement now? Hope we get one soon. Most of this is from Mr Avacado (who Zep replaced), but I'm not overlooking any of it.

@serous please post something relevant!

@Mod

CAN WE PLEASE REPLACE SEROUS?

Not much to say here, but he's clearly impatient. I wont say it's a definite negative, but it doesn't help.

Well thanks for at least recognizing me nur! I think that mirth chuck and seb are all being suspicious and that dej is just plain stupid! LOL but i actually do agree with nur on the chuck near a Fos.

It seems to me that Mr Avacado was trying to get on Nurs good side and suspected just about most of the people in the game (the ones that were posting anyway) aside from Caf, who most people seemed to be on good terms with.

Im sorry if i seem superficial but it is only my first proper game so i'm not very good at building arguments or anything yet!

Playing the newbie card. This also isn't a definite negative, but it doesn't help him.

Seb you really need to stop and wait for replies before posting another reply. - sorry in the process of reading through just it is annoying when you post 5 or more replies in a row!

This is what I find most interesting. He claims he's reading through it at the moment, but that was the last post he makes.

As for Dej's questions I'll post more later no time to compile any evidence at this time.

Before this post he said that I had not been commenting on controversial topics, but I thought I had been so I asked him to give me an example. On the next page when he got around to answering questions, he seemed to have answered all but mine.

As for Caf, honestly, I can't really find anything incriminting about you... You didn't post as much as the rest of us, but you did always make up for it with lengthy posts addressing aspects of the game that you should've. By the time you posted, much of what you said had already been said, but you also added some new thoughts on the subject. Ruling you out wouldn't be smart, but I just can't see you as scum right now.

[dejkha]

EBWOP: For cafs portion of my post, I meant, I can't find anything "incriminating".

[dejkha]

Aw, damn it. That was time not very well wasted. Lol thanks for letting me now though. Then I guess the only thing I have on Zep is that last part then. The only people I ever suspected was Mirth, Nur and Seb...

[dejkha]

Any word on a possible replacement yet? It seems like it's been quite a while.

[dejkha]

On Nov. 30 Seb sent me a message saying you asked him to replace and he said ok, but you haven't gotten back to him...

[dejkha]

I'm going to nickname you dej now. I hope you don't mind.

From Day One you attracted some suspicion. You jumped on a Mirth bandwagon on Page One, and as nureins describes it:

Dejkha jumped in the wagon but stated very clearly it was another's case. Do you think my case was so important as to risk a lynch in first page ? especially taking into account this is a newbie game...

From this quote, we can see a possible motive: jumping on a bandwagon so it could gain momentum. However, this also shows that you jumped on a tiny tell that wasn't even true, showing that your intentions may not have been as pure as they would seem. Throughout the game, you also attract some suspicion. There must be a reason for that. Any comments?

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but after I made that Mirth vote I told everyone I thought it would be better to vote off any lead than complete randomness. At that time, which I believe I explained later, I forgot that I didn't have to vote, which was also a reason I voted right then and kept that my vote.

Where else would you say I gathered suspicion? It seemed to me, others thought of me as nuetral. Care to explain? Maybe I misinterpreted what some of what people posted?

I agree on Caf appearing to be pro-town but theres a possibility of him just playing us.

[dejkha]

CHUCK-SCUM

As for dej's first reaction, he doesn't react the way I would. He doesn't appear confused, angry, upset or any other emotion you would get under these circumstances. Instead, he questions just like any other post, almost like

if he were expecting it

. Of course, this could just mean that he's very experienced in Mafia, but that would contradict the IC's reaction and possibility b). Makes me think a bit.

I believe I said, or implied, that Chucks Admission was selfish and possibly game ruining. Other than that, why would I be upset or angry? Maybe I'm wrong, but even if I were scum, I dont think scum buddies can communicate otside the game, can they? So, if that's the case, I couldn't have been expecting it, and neither could anyone else; scum or not.

SEB-DOC

HOWEVER. Dej says he's voting Seb. Fair enough. He, however, doesn't vote, citing that he doesn't want a hammer. I see this as suspicious, as dej is trying to avoid suspicion by giving a supposed doctor another chance. Why? If we assume dej to be scum, we see a motive: If Seb really is a doctor, then suspicion would fall on those who voted and they would be hammered either before or after Corvuus. Dej, already having some suspicion, would be under the microscope first. Why wouldn't he not like that if there was nothing to lose? Raises more red flags.

I wanted to hear more from Seb and Corvuus at the time I said I would vote Seb. How would giving a supposed Doctor another chance be a scummy move? If Seb were the Doc and I was scum, there would be no reason to protect him, since he's obviously not my scum buddy. If I were town, I would want to make sure Seb isnt the Doc before we lynched.

Given how stupid it was for Seb to claim doc, I doubt who voted for him, would matter since he could've potentally ended the game regardless on what side he was on. I'd say it's normal to want to not be suspicious.

For dej, I saw 2 votes during that period. One was a hammer and one was a L-1. Throughout the day, you seem to not be pinning down suspects. Rather, you offer opinions about people. You only voted when everyone else was going that way. This for me also seems to fit the bill where Mirth's accusation is concerned. You are tight with your vote, always waiting until the majority would agree. Looking deeper, this may be a drive to appear as innocent as you can. This just raises my suspicion more.

I voted when nobody else cared what that person had to say. I was waiting for input from certain players, and voted when nothing else could be gained.

[dejkha]

What can I say, I agree with people. In cases like Seb claiming Doc, it shouldn't be odd that I didnt come up with "my own argument". Most of the other times, if people made an argument that I agreed with, I said so and tried to build on and support it. Other than that, it came down to analyzing posts.

[dejkha]

Since we're in need of discussion, what do you both think about Chucks list of who's who? Granted it was way back on page 2 and Serous didn't post, so it doesn't mean so much, but nonetheless:

So here is my list of what I think everyones roles are...

Maifa

Nuriens-Even though it isn't very high suspicion, he is more suspicious than anyone else at the momnt, in my view.
Dej/Mr Avacado- Both voting yet not really explaining why. Notice how both were in Bandwagons? Mafia trying to keep their heads down?

Town

Me- Because I know i'm pro-town.
Mirth/Caf- Both posting alot of quite helpfull evidence. Imo the most, apart from me =P, town like people.

Not sure about...

cute.without.e- I have a slight town vibe about this person.
Serous- Hasn't posted.
seb456zig- Hasn't posted.


For some of the theories in the earlier part of this post, they are all theories. There is no concrete evidence yet.

[dejkha]

I'm waiting on Caf. Hopefully his opinion will give us something to discuss.

[dejkha]

With regards to analysis of Chuck's scumlist, I don't actually think much can be gained from it. Chuck wasn't voting for dej when he made the post, so it's equally likely to be scumbuddy distancing as it is to be attacking a townie. (And it's fairly Wifom-ridden to try and decipher which is the correct situation, imo). Similarly, not much can be worked out from his position on Serous. Do you two agree? Disagree?

I agree. I didn't think much could be gained from it, but it couldn't hurt to throw it out there. You never know when someone may slip up.

Furthermore, I believe that this is not a case of 'who's less pro-town', but rather 'who's more scummy'.

This is in fact the exact opposite of what you've been doing, which is to suspect a neutral player over a pro-town player, entirely a 'who's less pro-town' method. I'm beginning to think that ostensibly 'pro-town' sentiments such as that one are merely empty words used to get on the good side of the other players.

I noticed that as well, but I wont elaborate since I'd only be restating what you already said (not much other way to put it). As for the other inconsistanties, while I do think they are a bit suspicious, they may be a change of opinion.

Dont have much to anything outside of what I quoted.

[dejkha]

Comparing you both to each other (as opposed to everyone else that was in the game) this is how i see it:

Caf- 2/10

Drench- 6/10

[dejkha]

Come on, no one ever thought of Caf as scummy anyway. Pretty much the most he ever had against him was the possibility of being so pro-town that he might be tricking everyone lol.

vote: drench

Okie dokie then. I guess that's game? I've definitely learned a lot through this interesting game with constant twists and turns lol. Thanks to everyone and happy holidays. =D

[dejkha]

I thought I was screwed once Chuck outted. Thank god Seb lost his mind or something lol.

Honestly though, when I hopped on the bandwagon on page 1, I probably would've done that even if I was town. When I found out about the game, I played on another website and it was pretty much random voting the whole time. Didn't know how serious it was over here. Now I know to never that whether I'm scum or town. Definitely learned a great deal from this game though.

[dejkha]

I cant remember exactly why I NK'd Nur, but I think it was because, during Day 2, either him or Caf said who they would suspect Day 3 if it came to that. Something like that, I think. And I also thought Caf suspected me less than Drench. Nur seemed like he would be 50-50 to whoever else was left. At the end of the day the decision it worked out though.

And let me tell ya, at the beginning of Day 1, I almost cracked after all the pressure on me from hoping on the bandwagon. Thank goodness Seb came along lol.