Newbie 607 (Ruined)

[IH]

confirmed

TRIPPIN BAWLS!

[IH]

Vote:Flame

Obviously an alt of mine.

[IH]

Lawl. Spyrex just bandwagoned someone for bandwagoning.

[IH]

Post 28, Spyrex seemed pretty confident with his vote.

Post 33 he immediately unvotes after some pressure is put on him. Why did you unvote?

Post 35 is a dead give away.

Vote:Kamikaze

Look at the votecount. This is dead serious.

[IH]

it was my birthday this wekend.

I'll post stuff later.

[IH]

Knowing the number to lynch is tech.

**The more you know**

[IH]

Unvote
Just messin around. Still to early to have any real calls.

Why FoS? Any real reason?

This doesn't sit well with me. He voted someone for bandwagoning, which I made a comment on. After my comment he pretty quickly unvoted. Sounds skittish.

FoS:Spyrex

As I asked earlier, he did answer, and I'm not moving my vote, because I think it's just more of a "newbie" syndrome in where you're overly cautious.

Pretty confident with his vote? Eh, kind of an overstatement, wouldn't you think? I mean he said himself he was partially jokevoting, and it seemed more like a scumhunt vote more than anything, as people might have various opinions on the matter of early bandwagons. And those types of votes are rarely confident until proven otherwise, when evidence shows up.

I don't think unvoting is entirely criminal, once again, when people say 'messin' around', it usually means in mafiacode 'a vote to stir things up', and even if it was still entirely in matter of randomness, votes are what wake things up. But if we speedlynch someone on such a young foundation of posts in the game, this only gives help to the mafia, getting more nights to kill strategically.

How exactly is post 35 a dead giveaway? I fail to see how his argument reeks of scumminess, was bumping up the topic for a while, may have had some interest in the game, we always have to try to deduce the motive behind the actions we make, it helps us distinguish the difference between townie and mafia.


Unvote, vote IH because his arguing seems to be hard, but it seems to be built on sand.

Part of my post was to produce a reaction, but part of it was serious. Look at post 35. It's an excuse that he was "lol still mostly joke voting", not to mention he quickly followed up on someone elses reasoning with a vote against Peg. Not exactly a dead giveaway, but something to get going with.

I'm willing to chalk some of it up to the "newbie" syndrome cautiousness, but not the vote.

He has singled you out because you singled yourself out. You "bumped" the thread twice while we were in the confirmation stages (why?) and then didn't post hardly anything once the game had actually started.

I suggested you might be scum because you were anxious for the game to start (hence the "bumps") and he simply pointed out that not only were you eager BEFORE the game started, but once it did you suddenly got quiet. I thought it was a valid point.

The question I'd like answered more is why you are defending the case that you didn't make, but seem to know so much about, so hard. "Bumping" a thread is not a scumtell, and is in no way scummy, in the confirmation stage. You could SPECULATE that he was scum eager to get the game going, but you could also SPECULATE he was town eager to get the game going. It's some form of a logical fallacy, but I don't feel like remembering what it's called. I just know it's wrong.

Strawman maybe?

I never said it was the greatest reason, but it's a better reason than a random vote, and your over-reaction to it makes me happy with my vote.

Uh, why are you answering for him? With this post, whether you're doing it on purpose or not, you're not only producing faulty reasoning against peg, but you're also implicating TGC because this was originally HIS case, which I believe he could have dismissed.

However, not every player is going to bump the thread (several times) before the game starts. Therefore, there was a reason why you were doing it. You claim it was to get people to notice the thread, but why were you so worried about it? Especially since you were apparently "busy" once the game started? My theory was (is) that you were excited because you got to be scum, and you were anxious to get the game going, but then once it started you got quiet.

This is silly. Where is your evidence that a scum player would be more anxious than a town player to get the game going?

Personally I think a scum player would be LESS likely so they can continue to communicate with their buds.

And you should know that you can't find out stuff unless there is a reason for the bandwagon (hence the person is pressured by it).

Therefore we should bandwagon pickem; for everything scummy he's done and because he uses "zomg" in every post he makes.

I don't like this post at all.

unvote, Vote:Zeek

, that last line felt off enough, combined with that horrible reason he's pushing the PEG stuff.

PEG, you're being unreasonable. This is a newbie game; you're supposed to be teaching people not saying things like "You should know more about mafia"

Trolling is tech, obv obv.

I would say that atm I currently think that Bridges and Balloons looks ok. So does SL.

I've read this game, and although I dont agree with Zeek's logic on a lot of it, peg DOES still seem scummy and I'm not buying the whirlwind approach of powerlynching to see a response.

Overalll I think Bridges IS town, although I would want to check you out in the days to come, just with the speed you became town leader.

Zeek and Peg could be trying some elaborate gambit - I feel like Peg is MORE scummy, but that doesn't change the fact Zeek feels greasy too.

I don't like this post AT ALL. Just the second statement. You obviously think that Bridges is town, and I'm pretty confident that you have confirmed that he LOOKS town. See the part I bolded.

Reasons why I believe Spyrex is scum just from this post.

Reason A:He doesn't agree with Zeeks logic. On the other hand Peg DOES seem scummy. In otherwords Zeek doesn't have a case, but PEG is still scummy. I don't like how he plays both sides of the fence.

Reason B:The bolded part. The only person who pronounced Bridges looked town so far was SL. Zeek obviously doesn't like him, but he still called him the TOWN LEADER. So if you're so sure he's town why do you have to stay on the other side of the fence again, because he became so town to you it seems.

unvote, Vote:Spyrex

IGMEOY:Zeek

, because that's just silly reasoning against PEG

post 123 outlines all of PEG's posts. I'm not convinced, since this is just kind of how PEG plays. Brashly, and offensively. It draws out reactions and people looking for an easy lynch for poor reasons.

Like Zeek!

Bridges also hits on something that indicats a Zeek/Spyrex pairing, where Spyrex calls both Zeek and Peg scummy, but only focuses on Peg.

Post 128 is ew.

I've admitted that I dont like Zeek's pitbull-style attack on PEG. That has nothing to do with mine.

And, seriously - "reasons" and "okay". Lets not condescend. Your reasons for Zeek, which I tend to agree with, are very similar to mine. I have a couple reasons for staying on PEG, not the least of he IS scummier than Zeek. If he comes up town then, of course, Zeek is way on my radar.

Look right above me. Tell me how that helps the town at all. I've never played a game with PEG so if I'm saying PEG plays like PEG then that must mean PEG plays scummy all the time and if thats a get out of jail free pass then hells bells.

First of all I don't like the semi false dilemma stated in the second paragraph that if Peg comes up town, then Zeek is all over his radar...

Pegs play seriously hasn't been that scummy... I'm not going to state how it helps the town, because if you haven't recognized it, it still helps the town.

Bridges,

Ok, I understand your opinion a lot more now. However, as useful as meta can be, I'm not going to use it. We dont have a jester or any other funny third party roles. I may not like Zeeks case 100%, but at least its a case.

All PEG is going to do is be a distraction - a great ploy for scum, especially if people just go "Ohh, thats how he plays". I am not, in any way shape or form, seeing how that helps the town.

Dear spyrex,

I'm curious if you think Scum would intentionally act anti town so as to distract the town.

What do you think of people who follow others?

Do you draw the connection between PEG's play and the above question?

Do you consider that PEG's play is TRULY anti town, or just brash?

[IH]

Mod:Votecount pluz?

[IH]

This is not some kind of OMG WIFOM business. He is being a distraction and, not once, has done anything that I feel helps the town one bit. At all. Period. If its scum or some tech way to play town I dont see how its a get out of free pass. Me, being a newbie here, wouldn't get away with that and I sure as hell dont think anyone else should. So, yes, it could very well be a "I always act like scum so my being scummy in every post sure as hell doesn't mean I'm scum guys, guys."

I didn't say it was. I'm trying to show you how it's not anti town without giving the entire thing away, but I guess I'll have to in the end, because in the end I think this entire argument itself is a distraction, but PEG's play has served an important purpose.

His style of play is one that is meant to incite reactions. He's not the only one who does it, and ALOT of people do it at the beginning of the game. I like doing it at the beginning of some games. Sometimes people do it throughout ALL of their games. I know Baby Jesus did it to an extreme form.


So I'm going to highlight helpfulness to the town, and then I'm going to try and explain the difference between anti town and scum.

Peg's 6th post
Peg's 7th post, where he explains his 6th.
His 9th post, where he defends himself, and shoots down Zeek

NOBODY WAS FUCKING CONFIRMING AND ME BUMPING THE THREAD UP ENSURES THEY CANT POSSIBLY MISS THE THREAD!!!

Then I got busy with my last few days of school and posting went down.



yes, i am scum for wanting the game to start and making sure people know the thread is here, your logic is flawless and there is no possible leek for you to be wrong.

Please carefully read the above post.

His tenth post, which further shoots down Zeke's argument that it was "better than a random vote".

His 18th post is another useful post.

At the moment I would say Peg has been helpful. The reasons you have listed are kind of not true...

Now, I still wouldn't even trust the reasons you listed that he was scum because there is a difference between, "not being helpful" and "Trying to hurt" the town. It's kind of subtle and kind of hard to see.... like Peg saying, "Hey guys let's lynch kamikaze! Let's kill him! Kill Kill Kill!" isn't that scummy. It's probably not serious, or at least is phrased in a way that it's not serious.

I'm more concerned about Peg stating things, like Zeke's clear contradiction, and giving no indication that it is suspicious. So, I'm kind of neutral on Peg atm. I would like Peg to list his suspicions ASAP.

As for my mysterious BOTH WAY VOTE OMG - part of me thinks Zeek might be a cop and dogging him because of that - hence the single minded behavior. Thats why I said if PEG was town I'd be a lot more wary of Zeek. WOO YOU CAUGHT ME

Big red X. Cop's don't get a head start do they? He wouldn't have a result anyway. Nice try though. There's no way possible that Zeke could no if Peg was town or scum, even if he is a cop.

As for the things I said about BnB - he came in guns a blazin, which is good, but by becoming a focal point (a town leader) and playing the way he is I'd like to yes, see some confirmation he's just not a very, very good scum player. Not that crazy of a stretch to me - I think he's town more than scum (but not convinced) but I am a little wary of the way he marched in. Kind of, GASP, like your post.

What I'm saying is that, by declaring him a town leader, you declared you thought he was town, because only one person had done so before you out of the other 8. In other words you thought he was town, but wanted to keep suspicion on him. Once again, could be really cautious, or could be scum trying to keep suspicion on him, as I've done in the past. Especially as newb scum.

I'm not sure what I think of you IH as a whole so far. This isn't an OMGUS but you did FoS me, Vote Zeek, then Vote me in the same post. That seems real strange, but who am I but some noob that better just have his hand held the whole way.

it's cause I reread over the thread cause I've been absent (Which I found odd that nobody really noticed). I originally placed my vote on Zeek, and then found you more suspicious. I'm kind of wavering on my suspicion of you at the moment tbh.

I'd also like to state....

Spyrex is currently at 3-4 votes. Be warned when placing a vote.

On that note....

Zeek, what happened to your super strong feeling on Peg?
BAB, why a Spyrex vote?

[IH]

I have my eye on the above player, but it's a gut feeling until I see some more evidence.

For now he's still pretty townish. Just a note of reference for myself to come back on in case I see what I think I see again.

[IH]

EBWOP:THat's Bridges and baloons, since it's a new page now.

[IH]

I triple posted, I'm awesome.

I will have limited access from Saturday to Saturday (7-14th).

On the 7th and 8th I will be going to a two day smash bros tournament, and will leave very early that morning, play for around 48 hours, and then get back late night Sunday. That next morning, Monday, I will be leaving on vacation with my family. Last year I got some form of internet, but I dunno if they will have it, because it was spotty last year.

[IH]

FoS:Gimbo

what a silly reason to try and slap on a vote

[IH]

Seriously....

[IH]

I'm glad you have a good sense of responsibility.

I mean when I lurk, it's not because I've found a better game, it's because I'm not around.

[IH]

I believe I was also V/LA....

[IH]

A) lynch a anti-town player who is anti-town even when they're town.

Anti-town=\=scum

Thuh end.

Scum very rarely try to hurt the town in an "Anti-town" way. They'd prefer to attempt to use subversive ways that turn town players against one another.

Now, apparently this is a set of statements I made that are definitely being interpreted wrong. When I make statements he’s behaving as a “town leader” I mean more he’s trying to lead discussions and move the game forward. Seperately from that, I had a town vibe from him (yes, I use from). If I say town leader it does not even imply I think without question they are town, its just the role they are playing within the game.

I'm going with the subconcious feeling that he felt very town to you.

It's also kind of weird to me that you got a town vibe on BnB, and then suddenly find alot of evidence to you that he's scum.

Post 172:
Dear Gimbo. That was a nice way to get your vote off of anyone, and try to play all sides of the fence. Nice try.

I'd really like to know how I am "scummy" for simply attacking someone that everyone agrees is "anti-town"...

Are you attacking them because you think they're scummy, or because everyone else agrees that they're anti-town?

IH, if you actually consider how meaningless my vote for IM is (considering it is nowhere near enough to gain any momentum)

you might come to the revelations that SOMETIMES some people just actually want to do something different for the sake of havign fun...

BTW, Day 1 has gone on for over a month, when is this going to end? Get on with it already...


P.S. And don't any of you say that because I want to rush a day that I am anti-town, cause sometimes even a genuine townie gets bored of the same static shit that lasts for 1 month without any sort of conclusive decision.

If you consider how pointless it is to slap on a vote for NO reason, and is just a really nice way to stay on all sides of the fence while looking like you're contributing.

Welcome Evil Gorrilaz

Unsure of BaB's post 214 and his accusation of having someone link him. Seems like an over reaction, since for all they know, or I know, you could have just been making something up, which is even MORE of a defense.
Also,

I'm going to make myself really clear now. I think that either Zeek or Spyrex will be great lynches today. I would prefer us to lynch Spyrex, but I think they are both incredibly likely to be scum. Anyway, this is mainly to mark for people who re-read the game in the later days. My opinion might change, but right now I'm set on lynching one of those two today.

I dunno how I feel about this either, I'm going to think it over and come back to it later.

But this isn't necessarily scummy from you I guess (which is why I'm not voting you). TSPN did the same thing in a game I was recently in. I was town, he was town, and I was attacking Skruffs (who was NOT town) and TSPN kept saying I was scummy for my attacks on Skruffs, mostly because he refused to even think that Skruffs was anti-town (which he was)... I don't understand why he did that, and I don't understand why you are doing it now.

1.I feel better about your posts.
2.Skruffs is a special case anyway, and is a VERY hard player to read. He usually gets lynched anyway, and it's not uncommon for scum or anyone to try to hop an easy Skruffs wagon
3.You're overreacting about Peg. He doesn't have a buffer, it's just that all of your reasons for voting him aren't that valid. Keep looking.

We should just lynch PEG... for all the reasons I voted him the other day.

and there is still a good chance that he's scum.

There are 9 players here (instead of 7 like a normal newbie game), so we have more wiggle room if we're wrong.

Also if there is a cop it gives him a chance to investigate...

vote pickmegenius

And there goes my good feeling about you out the window.

unvote, vote:Spyrex, FoS:Gimbo

While i know the game is going slightly slow, this is

the

number one scumtell I have seen in newbies. Every single person who has made the statement, "We should hurry up and lynch, we should go ahead and lynch", without exception, has been scum. I'm going with this tell ftm, though there's some wiggle room because of how slow the game has gotten. My vote is going on for the bolded part in the post I quoted, because he tries to explain it away, and doesn't seem to confident he's scum for how badly he wants to lynch him.

Also we'll eventually have a night. A cop investigating is not the solution.

Spyrex, if you're town, you've done the worst thing you can possibly do by self voting. That is in no way a protown point for me.

Knowing you've been here for a year doesn't help any feelings I have for you.

If everyone thinks the game is going to slow, we probably need a DEADLINE, not a lynch like this.

And mod, I seriously hope once we get to tomorrow you just start dropping modkills instead of finding another set of replacements for the set of replacements who are replacing some people.

(Kick Kick)
That's stupid, and only invites
A.Shame to the mod
B.Shame to the game
C.An unfair advantage

I started the game with a vote on PEG for a small scum-tell (that he was anxious to start). Since then he never contributed anything and over reacted when the issue was brought up further by me and Kamikaze, so I kept my vote on him.

NOT a scumtell

A pretty solid synopsis. I dont -know- if Zeek is town or not but he sure smells the same stink on PEG I see and BnB and I have our own special little dance now.

I would disagree

vote: Zeek your post on 258 is just so horrible. It's completely inaccurate and is a blatant attempt to get players against me. You lied and exaggerating completely. This is not a pro-town player.
I fully endorse Zeek's lynch today. I've seen enough.

You already did this with Spyrex.

FoS:BaB

And I love how you throw out "buddying" when there is no two players in this game who are more "buddy-buddy" than you and PEG.

That is totally and completely false. I've "buddyed" more with Peg. Is it because I've been more logical? I believe I've provided the meat of the defense of Peg, and that was ONE post, it's just been BaB repeating it.

How about how your's and Spyrex's votes almost ALWAYS follow each others? Spyrex's continued defense of you (until it was pointed out to him), especially early on?

It's kind of like someone wrote an article about how the earth is flat and the world is just pancake that sits on a giant plate and starts are pieces or skittles. There's so many things wrong with your post I don't know where to start.
I'll do so (and respond to the rest of your post) later today. I'm visiting my grandpa today, but afterwards I'll continue my responses.

Seriously, I just reread your "summary" and about 60% of it the "summary" are lies. Anyway, looking forward to attacking the summary later today.

I'm anxious to see this. Zeek's summary is right if you're suspicious of Peg.

I'm kind of unsure how Peg and BaB became a "Faction"?

Basically, you think I'm scummy because I've been attacking an anti-town player.

To anyone who is not BnB - is that not the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard?

I believe I asked this question earlier.

Do you think he's scummy? Do you think he's anti town? Are you voting him because people agreed he is such? How much impact does that have on your vote?

so why would we NOT want to lynch someone that is hurting the town's chances of winning? Just because he is your scumbuddy?

Because in such a small game, if you don't think he's scum, you want him alive or else you're helping the scum EVEN more. Scum don't have to kill, "Good" town players, they just have to kill TOWN players. They get easy lynches during the day, and kill off the ones that would be hard at night.

Just to let you know, bandwagons are actually pro-town. They provide reactions early in the game and propel the game out of the random voting stage. Shelby was second on the wagon, not third. This was a bad reason to suspect her. If Spyrex wanted to suspect her, he would have needed a reason. Again, bandwagons are very pro-town. Especially on the first two days.

They can be, andsometimes they aren't. I wouldn't go so far to say that all bandwagons are protown on the first two days.

I'm not convinced by Spyrex's post about BaB defending Peg.

#1: You are wrong. Yes it is a "scum-tell" (I said "small scum-tell" but you conveniently left the "small" part out to make what I said look worse than it was). I even explained why: (he might have been excited that he got to be scum and wanted to get going).

He might have been excited that he got to be town and wanted to get the game going.

He might have been excited that he got to play with me! Or SHadowLurker! Or Play in a BBM game!

X

how does this not apply to Gimbo either, that he's so excited to play the game, but not doing anything?

Also, I'm back.

So Suspicions.

Zeek (Went down, and then went back on top)
Spyrex
BaB(In the event that Zeek is town, I'd guess that BaB is scum, but it's not, "LAWL IF ZEEK IS TOWN THEN BAB IS SCUM" it's, "if Zeek is town, then BaB and Spyrex will probably be my top two suspects, LAWL")

The problem is half of the town is lurking.

I'd like to propse the idea of a deadline to everyone, and also request a prod on the following from the mod.
PEG(confirm he is still V/LA)
SHADOWLURKER(PLuz post. = ( Your absence is making me sad)
MAMALUIGI(Haven't seen anything, please consider replacement for the FIFTH time. I'll try to help you find one, because replacements are getting ridiculous)
GIMBO(Self explanatory)

[IH]

I'll respond to the rest later.

Anti-town = against town = scum

TEH ENDZ

WRONG

Anti-town=Hurtful to the town, not AGAINST the town.

Alot of things can hurt the town, but that doesn't mean that it comes from scum, or is an indication of scum.

That's what we're looking for, an indication of scum.

What you have found on Peg ISN'T an indication of scum IMO. Bring your points up again, and I'll show you what I mean.

[IH]

That's totally helpful thanks.

What you have found on Peg ISN'T an indication of scum IMO. Bring your points up again, and I'll show you what I mean.

The above post is the least helpful thing you can do, and then you're just as bad as PEG in your opinion, worse in mine.

My very first game I LOST because scum guided us into lynching lurkers and "Anti town" townies. I happen to have some experience with, "Anti-town" people.

See newbie 277, and probably dozens of others.

Now if you want to continue to complain or just flat out not believe me, continue to make useless defeatist posts like the one above.

[IH]

(Kick Kick)

[IH]

Spyrex, you can't fault PEG for not being around since he's had limited access, along with trying to find a new place and his mom getting in the hospital, last I checked.

I seriously don't see how any sane person can read this game and side with PEG/BnB...

That is because you're biased, and can't really talk for anyone elses position. You lack empathy and a true objective neutral POV.

You probably think that your play has been ALL townish too.

IH: I want to make sure I understand. You are unsure of me (and my alignment) because I have repeatedly mentioned that I want Zeek or SpyreX lynched today. Is this correct?

I am unsure of your allignment because you don't ever seem to take a stand. You stay to neutral and seem to stay on both sides of the fence every chance you get.

[IH]

Here's a hint for you dude: OMGUS is a scum tell. It's not enough to warrant a lynch by itself (because that's really how some people play) but I've also learned to keep an OMGUS point log in all my notes and I've found that the more people do it, the better chance it is that they're scum.

Disagree, especially in the random stage.

Vote: pickemgenius even if he isn't scum, all he's doing is harming the town.

I will take no part in lynching someone because they are, "harming the town" or if they are a , "Safe lynch".

[/exp]

IH -

I understand limited connectivity and I know how hard it is to have a mother in the hospital for anything. I'm just saying WHEN he comes back I hope there's some depth - and I have seen him pokin around with little posts so.

Coming from someone who is constantly behind-It's alot harder to actually read than to check in X_X

See all of my games from last fall and this spring X_X

Meh... now I'm unsure on my Spyrex vote. The above posts of his were decent.

= (

Meh, I've changed my mind, and I'm moving my vote to Zeek for already stated reasons, and I want to see more from Spyrex, despite that tell I already stated.

Also, I do not approve of a Peg lynch.

It is a current Win/Win for me.

TO CLARIFY-I do not support the Peg lynch. I think the reasons that have been given have been less of indications that Peg has been scum, other than that silly Omgus tell, which is not scummy in the random stage, and certainly not a tell to me from how long Peg has been playing, and to the extent I have seen him play in scumchat.
In fact the only reasons I have seen that were given to lynch peg was that, "He isn't helpful, we should lynch him because even if we're wrong, then it won't matter if he's helpful!" It's a very EASY and SAFE wagon, in the fact the there is no "consequence" in their eyes for if Peg comes up town.

In my eyes, this is an ideal place for scum to hide. If Peg is lynched and comes up scum, I personally won't trust ANYONE, because of how easy it would be for scum to throw his buddy under this bus. If this is an all town lynch on a scum, I'm gonna say it's blind luck on a safe wagon with someone who can't or won't defend himself.

In conclusion

We shouldn't be lynching helpless people we should be lynching scum.

unvote, vote:Zeek

[IH]

Like I said you're free to disagree with me. But "OMGUS is not a scum tell" flies in the face of conventional wisdom with the way the games are set up on this board. 90% of the people here would disagree with you.

And I think you pulled that number out of your ass

There's a HUGE difference between a safe lynch and lynching someone who is doing actual harm to the town. Why on earth would you want to keep someone alive if he's harming the town? Do you want a mob victory?

Why would you want a "safe" lynch. You don't lynch scum with "safe" lynches. That's how you LOSE games.

Scratch that, 3 times. Scum also like to coast along contributing nothing, which is what he seems to be doing right now. So you're saying because he can't or won't defend himself that we should give him a pass? Boy I want to be scum in your next game...

You're funny. See V/LA

And just because I signed up after you doesn't mean I have any less experience than anyone else here. Games on MS are radically different than games IRL or in realtime chat (IRC for instance). I've completed 2 games on this board now. How many have you completed?

70+ on this board, and dozens to hundreds more in chat and IRC, and a few face to face with friends.

If PEG is actively lurking, I want proof of how much he is actively lurking, or if he is actually posting content.

Also realize that we have walls of text in this game.

On one hand, Peg could easily be coasting along. This behavior is easily rectified on day two, especially if he doesn't catch up in the time given too him.

On the other hand, Peg could easily be town who can't post, or doesn't have the time, or just doesn't feel like having to sift through text, and people are trying to use that as an easy and safe lynch. I'd rather take care of this type of behavior on day 1, as I find it much more likely that this is what SCUM would do. Looking for an easy lynch that they can't be blamed for, while looking as if they're contributing to the hunt alot more.

2cents

[IH]

I <3 SL.

That is all.

Also saying, "It is not a safe lynch, it is the correct lynch" is not an answer I will pesonally accept. I gave reasons why he is a safe lynch and an easy lynch. I have refuted your reasons for why he is the correct lynch, and even given you the two scenarios that we have each presented and compared them.

Give me some better and/or different reasons why Peg is scum.

I have a question for all of you who were/are voting for PEG, because SL brings up a REALLY good point.

If Peg has been unhelpful, why are you ignoring SL, who has been just as unhelpful? Or any of the other lurkers we've had in this game?

[IH]

Spyrex's post is really logical.
Dcorbe's post is really omgus(the part directed at Spyrex).
All of Gimbo's posts are really unhelpful.
All of Shadowlurker's posts were really helpful, and I'm glad he's caught up. I hope he will continue to stay up with the game.

Whoever was gloating when people joined on the Peg wagon were silly.

IH: This is just going to continue going back and fourth so I'm going to stop responding to you eventually since a long and protracted argument isn't going to be good for the town with a 2 week deadline fast approaching, but I'll attempt to explain my justification to you one more time in hopes of resolving this so that the town can move on and be productive again.

The ultimate conclusive point to my earlier posts was that PEG isn't "unhelpful" to the town, but rather he is "hurtful" to the town. Case in point, we're still to this page arguing vehemently about whether or not he should be lynched.

I already resonded to this argument a long time ago. Lynching someone who is "Harming" the town, from your definition and what you've found from PEG, is a safe lynch, and produces the same result, since he is essentially hurtful to the game because he is unhelpful.

In other words, from what I've gathered the case is.

Peg was unhelpful at finding scum and jumping around randomly. He is therefore harming us. Scum harm the town! and even if he's not scum, because other than that we don't have anything, he's still a good lynch, because he's hurting the town. That will make the town stronger!

Unfortunately nothing really points to him being scum, and a LIVING player that hurts the town still puts us farther from being endgamed that a DEAD player.

In other words we're wasting a lynch, out of the three we get before we lose.

[IH]

Dcorbe is mad because he thought he was going along with what everyone at the time was saying, and then people quit lurking or got replaced and disagreed with what he thought was the most popular opinion.

I would actually be fine with a Dcorbe lynch to be honest. That or a Zeek.

Spyrex actually looks alot better to me since he started being slightly more reasonable. I was kind of disturbed by his backtracking, but all of his points so far have been pretty reasonable, and if Dcorbe is scum, I'm kind of unsure why he would auto omgus Spyrex like he did.

[IH]

Mk, deadline coming, enough talking, time for action.

And by, enough talking, I mean I'm switching my vote without big walls of text.

unvote, Vote:Dcorbe

Votecount:

Dcorbe [3] (Pickemgenius, SpyreX, IH)
SpyreX [1] (Dcorbe)
ZeekLTK [1] (Bridges)
Pickemgenius [1] (ZeekLTK)
IH [1] (Evilgorillaz)
Evilgorillaz [1] (Shadowlurker)

Not Voting [0] ()

5 to lynch.

2 week deadline. Which will just be the first of July to make it easy to remember. Prodding Evilgorillaz.

[IH]

IH is definitely suspect for his complete unwillingness to even wagon anyone. That crap about not going for safe lynches is just his attempt at looking pro town, so that he can manipulate us into mis-lynches.

This is complete and utter bullcrap, unless Peg is suddenly "Anyone"

Your vote is a tool. You can use it to do things like force scum tells through pressure, it's your only power as a towine and you can get a lot more done with it than just add a number to the vote count.

As a townie one of your jobs is to eliminate threats to the town, REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT.

Uh, as a townie my job is to lynch scum and not let anyone die off a silly argument.

If PEG were to be lynched right now and flipped town it would be his own damned fault.

This notion that he has that if we have even one mis-lynch that we're going to lose the game is complete BS. There are mis lynches in every single game. It's part of Mafia, and universally accepted as fact.

Inviting a mislynch is not smart.

The town must always gauge their losses and ask themselves "is this worth it if this lynch flips town" and I think the answer to that question in this particular case is an emphatic "yes"

A lynch should not be, "Hey if this guy is town it doesn't matter if he dies, and hooray if he's scum" a lynch should instead be, "Hey, we're lynching scum"

What incentive will peg ever have to participate in this game if we're unwilling to run a wagon on him due to his appalling behavior?

BULL.
CRAP.

You can't wagon PEG to get him to post, and lynch him too.

Also, self voting as town is the worst thing you can do if you're town. If you're scum please continue to lynch yourself.

[IH]

So what makes "anyone" different than "PEG" that you'll wagon "anyone" but you won't wagon "PEG".

See what I'm getting at here? You're blatantly defending your scum buddy.

Because I have already pretty much lead wagons against Spyrex AND Zeek, and am wagoning you.

Nice try to try and take every point I've said about PEG and attempt to invalidate it by doing this.

Silly Dcorbe.

Yes, I think in some cases it is better for the town to say "hey, I'm not 100% sure this guy is scum, but he's not helping us - he's just hurting the town (because we're all focused on him) so we should lynch him. If he comes up scum it's a bonus, but either way - he's gotta go."

So you're going with the, "I'm just gonna read, and disagree", or still trying to refute pretty much EVERY POINT I'VE MADE?

@ People who are against lynching him: You would rather give him a free pass to later in the game when no one has a read on him otther than "he's unhelpful"? How is that going to help the town? Then when it comes down to the last day or so, he's still around. There will still be questions. If he's not scum, the scum will get him mislynched to win. If he is scum he might be able to avoid getting lynched and win. Either way, I don't see how keeping him around can help us win.

Same comment

Dear PEG wagon:Give me a reason to lynch PEG. Give me a case on why he is SCUM, not why he is HURTING THE TOWN. The two are not the same. All reasons for why PEG is actually scum is just crap, and I've given reasons time and time again on how these just AREN'T SCUM TELLS.

So, until you give me a reason other than, "He's hurting the town anyway!" then I'm not going to lynch him, and I'm going to continue to protest, especially on day 1.

Also, wasting a lynch on someone who is lurking early in the game is one of the stupidest things a town can do. Pretty much just handing the lynch away, as lurking is more often than not a null tell(in my experience anyway).

Mod:Anyway you can have some kind of conversation with PEG to see if he is going to be committed to this game or not, and just replace him if he's not going to?

[IH]

To be fair....

Shatner is a jerk.

[IH]

Dcorbe has FOUR votes, and is at lynch minus one

[IH]

Lookatsigordie

bolded part is the most important, but feel free to spread around the unbolded part as well

[IH]

Still alive and going, catch up later.

[IH]

......