Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[singersigner]

It would've been nicer if you had brought up all of these points a week ago for people to actually marinate in before we felt more of a time crunch to get an even more accurate lynch. You spent the majority of D1 jacking off beause of your "trump card" so you're not really in a position to start shouting that people aren't listeningg to you now.

[singersigner]

Negatively? No. Dismissively. Temporarily. Nagging? Certainly not.

I think you know this isn't the way to get the lynch you want...

But Mina *I think* is sympathetic to Gammascum so I will ask her to look at it more closely while I'm out.

[singersigner]

Espy r u scum

[singersigner]

Sometimes I don't believe you

[singersigner]

I probly won't be around much the rest of this weekend so I'm gonna go ahead and claim in case people just vote me in the next two days.

I am Eledora Fawn the oracle

whenever I trace someone I'm informed wether or not they are Viktor Jarvik. Even if the trace fails I'm still informed.

also have a transcendent ability that my sign changes whenever someone targets me my sign changes to that of the person who targeted me.

minor n1 traced singer, not viktor, detected ut
minor n2 traced espeonage, not viktor, trace was unsuccessful

and as far as I know my sign changed to candle on minor n1 and back to blade on major n1 (started out as blade)

[singersigner]

So without having Espeonage or TTH confirming/denying their signs, I want him to answer how he changed his sign once with two people targeting him in the same game state (minor night one, not including any potential targets major night one).

Especially hearing DV's thought process on investigating me after having a town read on me, which theoretically should be somewhere in the team PT.

[singersigner]

UT I read your case on Gamma, and while I get that his stance on you seemed out of the blue, I'm still wondering why exactly that comes from scum. It's not like he waited for you to claim and was like "oh look, a great opportunity to mislynch Alquin"...like...he legitimately seemed done with your horseshitting around, which, I fail to see why you can't acknowledge that's been a large part of your game so far.

That being said, you did make a good point about Shadoweh seeming to appease people. She hasn't seemed like a huge entity lately, almost like she's riding the town-cred she has from the majority of the game, and is now using it to just contribute in the most generic way possible.

I still don't think either lynch is an option, just like Titus isn't, regardless, it would be nice if you did me the same coutesy of either linking me to where you already commented on my Tituscase, or comment on it now.

[singersigner]

Actually, when you put it that way, it sounds even worse? How would an ability like that ever resolve? Because theoretically you're talking about his sign changing every time someone targets him, right? So what if the original scum to target him wasn't the one performing the kill, then now his sign is that of the person performing the kill? When does the sign change? Before, or after being targeted?

Sounds like an infinite loop of bullshit so I'd really like him to come back and explain it further...

[singersigner]

I don't think DV saying that he didn't want to do the trace/detect plan day 1 points to him having the role he's claimed- it's tangentially relevant yes but I don't think that him saying that he doesn't want to follow the plan actually makes it more likely that he has that role. I don't see a reason why that decision would be changed by having a slightly stronger trace than everyone else, and I still think that his role as he's claimed it doesn't make sense to exist.

And whoever said that he was tracing people that other people weren't looking at is ABSOLUTELY wrong. empire was almost baned right before DV supposedly traced him, and espeonage has been considered for being lynched and baned throughout the entire game.

He disappeared after his claim, go figure.
He still needs to answer for his sign change and also why he felt it relevent to "out" it, since if town, that only gives scum more ammunition. Unless it really is an infinite loop, and the second scum tries to kill him, it changes his sign, which is essentially a bulletproof Viktor-cop???

No.

Just no.

Also people speculating for him and defending him before he can answer himself WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE THE ANSWER/THOUGHT PROCESS AT HIS FINGERTIPS should really just stop. This is the point of finding out if claims are bullshit. Seriously. I shouldn't be the only one who understands this.

Also Titus ignoring everything but trying to defend the claim and saying that a no-lynch could be better than lynching someone other than Aronis is terrible considering the crap I was given for not lynching Espy D1 and how she's made a big fuss about needing to get "the right lynch" when it only means something IF WE LYNCH SOMEONE.

[singersigner]

I'm sure there are other questions I missed but these seemed liked the important ones

nightchoices:

DV was unsure about who to trace n1, ceph suggested empire. n2 he mentioned something about maybe he was the one reading espe wrong and others were right, and something about if espe is actually lynchbait this game proving not viktor might help


flavour:
informed trace is called Scry

I'm obsessed with searching for the shadowy figure that appears in my crystalball.


sign change is Mist

something about clashing with other merchants of prophecy row causing poor vision for myself and others

2 people target (who targeted me btw, skimmed past it?):
I assume it's based on like natural action resolution, sign changes to last person in the order, e.g. detect obv happens before trace. If two actions of the same type prolly a coinflip.

tbh I think town is fucked
and I know I'm part of the reason it's fucked cause I didn't do enough to show that I am town. Feel like I was just starting to get my feet wet and now I'm drowning. Well whatevs if I'm lynched sorry about my crap play.

Hey.

Hey.

Instead of speculating.

Why not ask the mod.

And confirm.

Unless there's nothing to confirm.

Die scum die.

[singersigner]

I also like how Titus didn't really comment on the Gamma case, but just, like, you know, checked to see the interest in it, and then voted anyway hoping it would catch on cuz YAY MORE MISLYNCHES.

(oh wait but both Gamma and Aronis must be my scum buddies, right??)

[singersigner]

It would be superb cool if you could just vote and stop being useless.

[singersigner]

So um...Titus...why do you think Gamma is scum?

[singersigner]

If you'd bothered reading your own posts you'd see that regardless of your reasons for not engaging with the case, you never actually explained why you bothered going after a townish read without engaging in the case, which is something you literally just tried to call me out for being scummy. Are we buddies? Did you project your own scummy actions onto me?

How would you expect people to just magically start agreeing with you/UT if you made one comment about 'should've listened to UT' without any reason why? You're asking everyone do the heavy lifting for you so if this is town you, this is pretty terrible...

Only more for people to see the light tomorrow.

[singersigner]

What exactly did I sidestep? You went from townish, to should've listened to UT because his case is apparently god, to let's start a completely different wagon! I'm specifically asking you to explain your thought process, so if you're trying to excuse your lack of it as trying to appease the people who asked you to stop posting as much, what the was even the point of responding to my post in the first place...

Your need to respond to every goddamned thing ever is what people hate. It's like you don't trust anyone to see it for themselves, which is honestly a driving factor in my unwillingness to drop you as a scumread. You seemed more worried about people agreeing with me than allowing them to see how wrong I was if you were actually town. You can't pick and choose when you comply and when that makes you look good, Titus. Either you answer my question and leave it at that, or you stop being so ignorant about how terrible you've been to play with and go away for longer than a few hours.

[singersigner]

Why don't we lynch Titus and prove what a bullshit claim that was. You said you breadcrumbed your role to GiF. Time to prove it.

[singersigner]

Titus my team is wondering why you spent more time calling CDB scum than explaining why Gamma was. Are you literally just saying "UT is 100% right" without commenting on what makes you think he's right? You explained why you didn't want to engage, but we find it really weird that you actively chose not to explain why you were voting when you voted for him, as if you could legitimately get a lynch on Gamma.

Mina thinks your claim makes you more town, though (because it was so bad), so she might force me to back off. Lucky you. Still want to lynch 4nxi3ty's craptastic claim.

[singersigner]

We have less than a day left to lynch someone.

We do, and it's my firm belief that Titus is stalling on purpose because she knows a no lynch is inherently better for scum, given that there's an Alquin claim which as scum she would have to know is true (unless they're scumbuddies but pls) that will immediately allow scum the advantage. She knows that the information from a lynch is the only thing town has to make informed decisions on night actions, knowing full well that if either/both are town, they're most likely going to be the default lynch for tomorrow.

Also, Mina thinks I should clarify that it wasn't the claim that was bad, it's Titus that's bad cuz LOGICK TRAIN THAT GOES NO WHERE, lol.

It's also in my opinion that this is a hail mary to save a scum buddy, knowing that numbers point in scum's favor with even two more mislynches, but...scum buddies without a flip and all.

Preview Edit:
I specifically asked you to ellaborate, though. I still find it weird that you're not excusing it with "no one wants to hear it" because who knows what role-madness is in the game and you shouldn't really be acting like you'll be around tomorrow and that's when it'll be worth it to hear your case. You don't really strike me as the type of person (as either alignment) who's satisfied with "oh well we can get to that later"... I know Ffery had an actual time line, but you'd think that you'd want to get everything on the table in case you didn't have the opportunity to later, right?

[singersigner]

Must be a scum claim!

[singersigner]

I wanna see Mastin get mad at Titus for not lynching 4nxi3ty when he was *this close* to a lynch.

[singersigner]

vote Aronis

I don't care

let's hope this lurker lynch is miraculously on scum

Hey, hey, why not on the actual shitty as fuck claim?

Like, does anyone really think Aronis came in with a drive-by expecting that to save him? That does not look like someone who was trying to concoct a claim for self-preservation, or someone who was just resigning to not caring about the game anymore? Granted that could come from either alignment, but this whole wagon reeks of a scumgoat (see what I did there...that should be scapegoat normally...it's a play on words...).

Like...people actually had reasons for voting DVslot whereas Aronis boils down to "doesn't give reasons and not around that much"? Scum are going to do whatever they can to clinch the game in as few moves as possible, DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A SCUM CLAIM REALLY.

Preview Edit:
Really, Titus? And what scum lynches have you been on? If Aronis flips town? HMM. LET'S LYNCH TITUS FOR BEING AN OBSTRUCTIONIST AND NOT LYNCHING SCUM.

[singersigner]

Ffs. This whole town-apathy until deadline thing is unreal. That plays right into scum's hands! They

want

town to be so disjointed and scramble for a lynch at the end of the day because chances are it'll be on town and then wagon analysis is shit, VCA is inaccurate (but I suppose that plays into scumTitus' hand so she doesn't have to provice something accurate).

The whole "there has to be scum on Bulb" argument is bullshit, Titus should know that, but she's blindly just saying what your average-joe townie would think to play right into your comfort zone and keep edging town toward making the slightly less optimal choices because MOON LOGICK TRAIN.

Geezes, you'd better hope there's some sort of godfather immune IC-cop innocent on you tomorrow...

[singersigner]

bane: 4nxi3ty

[singersigner]

So let's assume for a hot second that everything Titus spouted yesterday was bullshit, and maybe not assume there was scum on the Bulb wagon? I know it's unlikely, but now that we have better direction and my town reads haven't changed, the direction doesn't have to be there.

Also.

I have to be at word in three hours... >_>

[singersigner]

<3

You were like 'I'm paranoid' and I was like...BAH.

[singersigner]

I don't think she ever really thought 4nx would flip at all before lategame.

If you think it's possible it was a super-long con then *shrug* but she definitely didn't intend to have 4nx flip today either if she was still alive.

This.

@Cheetory...you realize that with the numbers Titus was crunching (which I have no reason to doubt were true though I can't be fucked to look back at it), she was playing for the blitz? There's no doubt in my mind that she was trying to keep the whole scum team alive for the quick win in the next two nights. Part of that probably involved getting a quick lynch on UT (and possibly even CDB though I have to see his results first), but that's just my theory. I still think he's town and have no reason to doubt the claim as I think there are only one or two viable counter-claims which haven't been made yet despite suggesting it might be an opportune time to do so.

Also of note, her lackluster defense of FF despite having literally no reason so do so compared to players like Aronis whom she wanted blood like nobody's business. Note how neither of those wagons (4nxi3ty or FF) happened under her watch specifically because of her defense of them (well more so 4nxi3ty than FF, but seriously she was strawmanning the fuck out of FF).

[singersigner]

Look where caution got you.

We could've had blood.

Instead someone had to take care of it for us.

Which narrows down the pool even further, imo. No SK means Titus target=instatown.

[singersigner]

Apparently it wouldn't have mattered anyway!

But seriously, we need to fucking get this game moving because town finally has some grasp of things now that Viktor's out of the way.

OH GAWD SHE WAS VIKTOR THAT MAKES THIS SO MUCH SWEETER.

Yeah we should see everyone avoiding her lynch, and I go back to assuming I was right about my town reads on her wagon at the greatest (remember when she tried to butter me up because that was my one moment of doubt?).

[singersigner]

Quick someone I trust tell me where to vote.

Gawd I love being right.

Ok I told my team I wouldn't be smug.

[singersigner]

[singersigner]

In particular I really want to hear from AD and mastin atm.

GOOD LUCK.

[singersigner]

Espeonage hasn't been on the site in over a week despite modding a game. Might need his team to et a replacement. Trying to work out the mini theme in the mean time. Womp womp.

[singersigner]

By the way, Zar would like me to point out that Mastin claimed to trace Titus but Titus claimed to detect someone the same phase so unless someone wants to counter having a detect on Mastin, Mastin is bullshitting.

Also didn't like her whiney tantrum saying of course she was right because if she spent more time actually playing the game instead of defending "the one person she could've been wrong about" then we could've gotten to this point much sooner. Seems like a whole lot of excuses for not a whole lot of rectifying those mistakes.

Titus, 4nxi3ty, FormerFish, and Mastin. Woop woop.

[singersigner]

boon: singer

If anyone knows anything about anything, just do it. I'd rather go for the win asap, and since I'm likely a NK target now that Titus is dead, it should be obvious.

Also, we've narrowed it down to 4nxi3ty plus two of AD, FF, and Mastin (and maybe a distant Shadoweh, but...meh, not really sure what to think about the claim yet).

I'll catch up tomorrow and explain more if I reeeaally have to, though at that point a mass claim might as well happen based on all the stupid soft-claims, etc.

[singersigner]

Meh, they were unreasonable about Titus but I think they see the light now.

I'm not saying we don't automatically disbelieve you. I think your lackluster involvement this game could probably be equated to having something of a trump card in your hard like we felt about UT; however, you haven't explained why you chose AD, which we all feel is a very wtf target. Like, I get trying to target someone who probably won't die (and let's be honest, if AD's town he's more of a vig target than a scum NK target). The only working theory of you being scum is literally all other options being exhausted right now and you'd have to be scum WITH AD, though he could be scum mutually exclusively of you. So that's the direction we're leaning.

So yes, it means we still believe CDB, and yes it means we're putting much more stock in Cheetory's assertions about Espeonage right now. Apparently his inactivity isn't exclusive to this game, so I'm more inclined to just believe he's careless? Though with the rate the games are going/playing out/ending...there's like 5% of me that really wants him to be scum and lose this game because I would be REAL SAD if his team of all teams won all four games for the auto-win.

Also, @Mastin...you really have to stop playing god, btw. I know this is a fruitless effort, especially if you're scum, but you can't be OH SO WRONG ABOUT SOMEONE and then say "but I would've been right eventually even though I never said anything to imply as such, and look I'm probably oh so right about this player so listen to me anyway!" You're too stubborn for your own good and Shadoweh's right about statements like what you just made that benefit no one but scum. Unless you're planning on publicizing who you CAN protect and it's me, then I will just flat out say that Shadoweh's not worth protecting (no offence, but I hope you can see why?).

[singersigner]

Singer is being universally scumread by my team.

[singersigner]

I bet it has something to do with how I hard bussed/tunneled my godfather-esque scumbuddy whom literally everyone was townreading until I replaced into the game. That's when I was like, OH...YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE REAL FUN...PUTTING A TARGET ON HER BACK FOR REALZ.

NO WAIT.

CAN'T STOP THERE.

I THINK I'M GUNNA KEEP CALLING HER OUT ON ALL HER BULLSHIT UNTIL SHE'S THOROUGHLY DISCREDITED EVEN THOUGH I JUST CAN'T FUCKING GET HER LYNCHED BECAUSE ???

BUT WAIT.

WE CAN'T.

STOP.

THERE.

I THINK I'M GUNNA FOCUS MY EFFORTS ON GETTING SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED AND TUNNEL ON THEM A BIT FOR FUNSIES (because Titus really needed a break at that point, let's be honest).

MAYBE I CAN GET MY GODFATHER TO FAKE-CLAIM AND SAVE OUR OTHER SCUM BUDDY'S ASS.

THAT WOULD BE.

JUST.

PERFECT.

AND THEN.

THEN.

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M GUNNA DO THEN.

MAYBE NOT CLAIM BUT LET'S BE REAL PEOPLE.

WHY IS TITUS DEAD.

LET'S.

BE.

REAL.

AWWWWWWWYESSSS.

AM I RITE. IS THAT WHY I'M SCUM.

[singersigner]

Hey so also I'm think we should mass claim things to an extent in Major Day 3 because it will narrow down possibilities.

And no I'm not limited. If we get two scum lynches in a row then I should theoretically be able to shoot the forth for the win, even if I die in the process.

Saying that makes me wonder if we're just arguing pointlessly anyway.

Gamma's not scum and I'd like to know why the fuck makes AD scum in Mastin's eyes.

[singersigner]

TEAM THOUGHTS:
Someone already brought up how Mastin's cherry-picking the reads she's scumreading according to the "VCA".
Also really dislike how Mastin harps on how he could've been SO RIGHT about Titus with little to no comments on how he's been wrong about me/Cheetory.
Don't like Mastin's read on AD with is becaaaaause???
Don't like how Mastin was wining and moaning about the Bulb wagon when she did literally nothing to prevent it except complain about it, which is exactly what Titus did with FF's wagon.
Definitely don't like how Mastin's role has been slowly modifying to fit her agenda at the time (deadwoman walking=gunna die soon, bulletproof=not gunna die soon, says "trust your MIA doctor that can't admit to being wrong even though it's been proven," can't protect someone but doesn't commit to protecting the one person that's actually useful \o/).

Basically we don't like Mastin at all right now, and like, if this is Mastin's convoluted way of staying alive until she can "break the game" like she implies pie is gunna do, then she's sure as fuck done a great job at discrediting herself to the extent of no one listening her if/when it happens anyway. >_>

[singersigner]

lol...really...

[singersigner]

Finishing my catch up tonight.

What happened to this? Where are your thoughts? What do you think of me? Why a Shadoweh boon over me?

[singersigner]

(hint: me, Cheetory, and CDB would all be useful to keep alive...)

[singersigner]

Tanky ily

[singersigner]

vote: 4nxi3ty

Also, Cheetory, I think I misunderstood something from yesterday so perhaps if we decide that massclaiming is the right play right now, you could clarify ~stuff~.

Also, also, I have a plan.

I think it means wins.

We shall see.

[singersigner]

If you think it's worth it? The fact that Espy didn't go anywhere with a flipped Viktor is pretty promising for not Espyscum unless they literally decided they didn't need any more results for anything. >_>

[singersigner]

I thought Espy detected DV? Something about TTH claiming to detect DV and then Espy saying "oh me, too"? I could be totally off-base, though... >_>

[singersigner]

Also, uuuuuh...pretty sure it's obvious what I did Major Night 2? But like...I guess people could still be REALLY FUCKING DENSE *COUGH*ESPY*COUGH.

[singersigner]

Well...I obviously detected Titus and was wrong. And then I guessed the right sign to shoot the fuck out of her scumface and was right.

So the notification I got made me think that you were an inventor giving me the ability, so I was like...ok that's not terrible? But yeah, I didn't realize at first that it meant I was notified that you got my most recent detect until I asked Hito when I could use it. >_>

[singersigner]

Oh wait...yeah you're right, lol. I tried shooting her night one and failed. Then I detected the right sign Minor Night 2 and shot her face Major Night 2. Empire submitted a detect on UT Minor Night 1 and my team was like...WHY NOT SHADOWEH to which I responded BUT TITUS YEEEEAAAAAAH. And was wrong anyway and they were kinda mad I didn't try shooting Shadoweh. -_- But they don't hate her as much now...just her play maybe? lol. But yeah, my bad, days too hard. >_>

[singersigner]

I'm glad that being literally confirmed town makes your team not hate me as much.
I'm at least glad you didn't shoot me the night Dan got the message which would have been bowls of Irony. So if anyone has a reason not to speedlynch Anx today, I guess speak your peace now or else hold amen?

You're only confirmed town if you're not scum with ActionDan, which given the scenarios seems unlikely, though not impossible. So...really, which is more confirmed town, an un-counter-claimed vig who clearly vigged scum due to no existing third party, or a mildly confirmed "modconfirmed town" by someone who can't risk lying about confirmed town lest it cause a 1v1 which would only be beneficial with some buuuuullshit scum gambit that would be seriously unlikely given the fact that both could easily be rung up and lynched despite a soft-claim suggesting otherwise.

THINK ABOUT WHO WANTED ME PROTECTED OVER YOU SHADOWEH LET'S TALK ABOUT OUR TOWN UTILITY AND HOW MUCH WE'VE CONTRIBUTED TO THE GAME BECAUSE MY WAGON RESULTED IN ME KILLING SCUM AND YOURS RESULTED IN LIKE MAYBE SOME AMBIGUITY AND RELUCTANCE TO ACCEPTING THAT YOU MAYBE HAVE TO BE TOWN EVEN THOUGH THERE'S STILL SOME DOUBT BECAUSE OF YOUR TARGET SELECTION WHICH YOU HAVE YET TO EXPLAIN DESPITE MULTIPLE PEOPLE SOLICITING AN EXPLANATION HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

[singersigner]

rant.

TBH I would have switched at the end if I were here, but considering the way y'all were talking at me I didn't want to make Anx's wagon poison by voting him since you were all literally convinced I was satan-posting. I will admit that you were right about Titus and I was wrong. I'm not having a townier then thou contest, it's a binary state, you either are confirmed or you aren't.

My being scum with Dan is only predicated on the idea that I will never send a message to anyone else in the future, which if I live is certainly not my intent.

But really for like the third time why Dan?

[singersigner]

4nxi3ty's stalling. He's obviously scum. We're just giving him time to help his team with one last wifom post.

[singersigner]

Two people haven't posted in 4-6 days.

[singersigner]

Uh ok apparently my post never went through?

vote: FormerFish

[singersigner]

Very few things will make me change my target. We know I'm protected an now can't be roleblocked. If we lynch correctly the game might just be over?

My team could be wrong.

But t this point PoE say highly unlikely.

Should we mass claim to be sure?

[singersigner]

I think Espy's assumption that they could still kind me as scum without a counter claim is sadly an indicator that he's town. Unless you think it's likely that his scum team was willing to let him get away with being that dense?

[singersigner]

Asking people to wait in a 270+ game over two and a half months is