Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

Titus · Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:15 am

Choose : Two

Bane: No One

If scum can match a player to their sign and kill them, revealing signs to all would be a bad idwa.

Also, given scum can match signs to a player and kill them, we need as much protection as we can get.

Titus · Post Post #18 (isolation #1) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:25 am

And if we bane Alquin?

Titus · Post Post #29 (isolation #2) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:42 am

In post 23, Cheetory6 wrote:Tammy. I'm going to assume you're fishing for townreads if you keep making posts giving the impression that you haven't read the rules. If you're town, go read the rules. Kthnx.

@Titus, how will scum know if we've baned Alquin unless they claim? We don't necessarily have to have anyone claim roles during minor day and we don't necessarily have to lynch the person we bane on MajD1.

Alquin's sign is in the first post. If we bane someone who has a candle sign, and they die then we basically did scum's job for them as Alquin cannot be protected.

We shiuld use bane as a verifier. If someone says they matched sign, the bane verifies.

Titus · Post Post #34 (isolation #3) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:49 am

In post 32, T S O wrote:
In post 29, Titus wrote:
In post 23, Cheetory6 wrote:Tammy. I'm going to assume you're fishing for townreads if you keep making posts giving the impression that you haven't read the rules. If you're town, go read the rules. Kthnx.

@Titus, how will scum know if we've baned Alquin unless they claim? We don't necessarily have to have anyone claim roles during minor day and we don't necessarily have to lynch the person we bane on MajD1.

Alquin's sign is in the first post. If we bane someone who has a candle sign, and they die then we basically did scum's job for them as Alquin cannot be protected.

Presumably there are other Candle players in the game?

Yes but I am not one for taking chances. Mafia is a game of information as much as it is about reading people. We have a source of information the mafia want. Most of use have trace and detect. We use it on the people we want to learn more about. There's no need to take chances.

Titus · Post Post #44 (isolation #4) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:57 am

In post 35, Tammy wrote:
In post 29, Titus wrote:
In post 23, Cheetory6 wrote:Tammy. I'm going to assume you're fishing for townreads if you keep making posts giving the impression that you haven't read the rules. If you're town, go read the rules. Kthnx.

@Titus, how will scum know if we've baned Alquin unless they claim? We don't necessarily have to have anyone claim roles during minor day and we don't necessarily have to lynch the person we bane on MajD1.

Alquin's sign is in the first post. If we bane someone who has a candle sign, and they die then we basically did scum's job for them as Alquin cannot be protected.

We shiuld use bane as a verifier. If someone says they matched sign, the bane verifies.

If you're actually serious about ermigerds we should not out anyones sign because then scum will know who they can kill, then I'd suggest stopping with this line of discussion because I imagine any responses or discussion this will provoke will narrow down people's signs.

Not sure how talking about the pros and cons narrows down people's signs...

Titus · Post Post #81 (isolation #5) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:04 am

In post 68, Cheetory6 wrote:Marquis is acting very fake.
I think he might be intentionally changing his playstyle.
/s

@Titus, should we not lynch in case if we vote for a power role?

Of course not. This is different as baning revealing Alquin increases the KPN. I have played with a similiar mechanic on darklordpotter.net. The idea is matching signs via massclaim is a bad idea because scum will slaughter us.

Titus · Post Post #88 (isolation #6) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:31 am

In post 85, Cheetory6 wrote:
Titus wrote:The idea is matching signs via massclaim is a bad idea because scum will slaughter us.
There's a difference between massclaiming signs and having a single player who we think is scummy being able to be targetted by PRs.

Yes but Alquin's job is to appear scummy so scum do not kill him. So if we bane, we might wind up finding Alquin as well as scum, even if playing ideally. Regardless of that point, each person we bane helps scum in finding Alquin. I am if the firm opinion weshould not bane until Day 2. Then we can have traces and detects to compare against.

Titus · Post Post #102 (isolation #7) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:25 am

In post 100, DeasVail wrote:If I didn't care way too much about what people thought of me, I'd be bumbling like an idiot too!

My understanding is that Titus is concerned about Alquin being important because he limits the number of unmakes/kill attempts the scum can make. I might be missing something, but I'm not super scared about bane possibly revealing Alquin, nor do I see any super good reason why we can't discuss it as long as Alquin doesn't stand on top of a mountain shouting out his name or something.

PEdit: That's his current avatar and I didn't know how to find the other one. Plus, inner cuteness and all that jazz.

This, which is why I am confused by Tammy and Cheetory's posts.

I have deduced the following:

1) baning gives us limited information while limiting the number of players scum have to search through thus eventually increasing KPN.

2) Two doctors reduces KPN but does not confirm which if any were blocked. This reduces KPN but info as well.

3) The game without signs is incredibly townsided, otherwise KPN being so high is off.

Given 1 and 2, two docs no baning seems to be the way to go. No information given and multiple protections in the early game are goid.

Titus · Post Post #133 (isolation #8) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:16 pm

In post 126, fferyllt wrote:
In post 121, Tammy wrote:Yeah, I figured you would ^_^

At the moment I'm trying to figure out the mechanics of the game and am submitting my dissertation tomorrow so I'm a bit distracted.

I would also like to see eespy's response or approach first. I could see him trying to get scum, but I can also see ZAR trying to get scum, so.

Could you see Titus trying to get scum?

I can see people thinking I would pick scum but a team game where people coach me on early town is better. I am pretty good as late game town with a VCA...but this game apparently may need tweaking as we have half as many lynches (I think).

Titus · Post Post #134 (isolation #9) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:17 pm

I kinda want to have a game where people are wowed by my town game prior to post flips.

Titus · Post Post #148 (isolation #10) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:56 pm

@CDB, I am rather interested in 129 as well. If Bane votes are meant to be who is the scummiest, why should the baned player get protection? Wouldn't it be better not to bane?

@Tammy/Fferylt, Pretty sure I have lost this argument on bane/not bane. I still think baning is a mistake but being stubborn will just mean my voice is lost in the process or unintentional fishing to those who cannot see theory as theory.

Titus · Post Post #153 (isolation #11) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:20 pm

In post 150, Cheetory6 wrote:@Titus,

Cheetory6 wrote:But I feel like something else worth considering is that we don't get a Boon if we don't use a Bane.
I also feel like being able to create wagons via Bane/Boon is also super useful and we lose out if we just say "nah" in all cases because of worrying about just the worst case scenario.
Thoughts on these aspects to following through with banes?

Wagon analysis is good but not at higher KPN. Plus, it requires us to submit a choice. Why can't that choice be "no bane"?

Mod: If we submit no bane as our choice would we still be eligible to get a boon or do we have to bane someone?

I never considered the boon as it is a future promise of something for antitown action now.

Titus · Post Post #167 (isolation #12) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:13 am

@Shadoweh, All my teammates prefer town, particularly ABR. ABR and I have a history of scumreading each other as town. Given I respect him as a player, teamming up made logical sense as I could tell him what I found scummy about his townplay. Plus, I was invited and I am a very pride motivated. I am the closest player to any who would prefer scum in this setting. Given how townsided most of the open setups can be, I bet practically no one preferred scum.

Also, I disagree with your post about unmaking the same person twice Shadoweh. Explaining why you are wrong would be anti town however.

Bane:CDB

Answer FFerylt please.

Titus · Post Post #170 (isolation #13) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:00 am

Then why did you vote no bane with me GiF?

Titus · Post Post #172 (isolation #14) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:16 am

??? Explain please. Baning is information over uncertainty.

Titus · Post Post #175 (isolation #15) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:39 am

In post 174, T S O wrote:
In post 167, Titus wrote:. Given how townsided most of the open setups can be, I bet practically no one preferred scum.

Do you think this set-up is particularly townsided?

Too early to tell.

Titus · Post Post #177 (isolation #16) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:34 am

In post 176, vezokpiraka wrote:
In post 175, Titus wrote:
In post 174, T S O wrote:
In post 167, Titus wrote:. Given how townsided most of the open setups can be, I bet practically no one preferred scum.

Do you think this set-up is particularly townsided?

Too early to tell.

So you think people spent their tokens on other games and didn't have anything else to spend here?

Maybe. Each team is different. The smart play is to see what games you got then assign token.

Titus · Post Post #183 (isolation #17) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:55 am

@TSO, Use context please. The opens are townsided so I would be surprised if anyone picked scum in those games. It is too early to tell if this setup is townsided.

Titus · Post Post #185 (isolation #18) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:15 am

In post 184, T S O wrote:But how is this fully open? It's semi-open at best.

Read my posts in their entirety again.

Titus · Post Post #193 (isolation #19) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:08 pm

Scum gives a bonus?

Tammy, it's two protections on the same night, every night or one with knowledge of attack or not.

Titus · Post Post #196 (isolation #20) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:22 pm

I thought they could be different people.

Mod: Can the protections be on different people if we pick the two protection choice? Could we protect the same person?

Titus · Post Post #199 (isolation #21) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:26 pm

Choice 1

Titus · Post Post #238 (isolation #22) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:37 pm

In post 204, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 167, Titus wrote:Given how townsided most of the open setups can be, I bet practically no one preferred scum.

This isn't an open setup. Also I'm pretty sure you're wrong and treating at least this Fake Day 1 NotLynch like we're playing Choose Your Side will be productive. I was more asking what kind of towny town advice you were getting from your buddies, are they giving you reads?

oh my gawsh tammy thinks town is silver she must be scum! II am referring to the kind of awkward jokey way you opened up in that game, compared to how you've opened up this game pretty laissaire faire. LLD thinks you're scummy too. I think you're more likely to have spent townie tokens though.

Sorry.

Generally, they told me to be more laissezfaire, don't sweat the small stuff, and try to avoid tunnelling. Definately no game domination day 1. If the group is going to be suboptimal, let them do it rather than fighting and distracting if you said your piece.

Titus · Post Post #246 (isolation #23) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm

In post 233, fferyllt wrote:Yeah I"m not fond of UT atm either.

I want to leave a strong townbloc behind when I drop dead. I'm thinking about how to go about that.

Zar who is Empire townreading?

My best games tend to be those where I form a townblock first and then push scumreads rather than the other way around.

So I will try to help, but not so sure hoe effective I will be.

I do think TSO is town. He's scumreading me because he cannot understand my posts. So start there maybe.

Titus · Post Post #251 (isolation #24) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:43 pm

In post 242, Tammy wrote:
In post 240, Zar wrote:
In post 233, fferyllt wrote:Yeah I"m not fond of UT atm either.

I want to leave a strong townbloc behind when I drop dead. I'm thinking about how to go about that.

Zar who is Empire townreading?

Empire is townreading Cheetory and ActionDan by way of actually posting.

As opposed to his magic eight ball?

I think that means townread because they are not lurking...

Titus · Post Post #254 (isolation #25) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:46 pm

In post 231, Tammy wrote:I mean I totally get no matter what empire is going to trash me in your pt, but I don't see how that's relevant to the game.

Ewwww...This reads like you are expecting scumreads. I am used to you obvtowning and everyone knowing it. So why would you expect scumreads or Empire's teammate to take him seriously?

Titus · Post Post #262 (isolation #26) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:52 pm

Kinda surprised Mastina is not here yet.

Don't know who Grey is but I would like to see why he thinks Zar is fluffing. I like his posting. He's not overstating anything.

@Tammy, ok... I wil make a note to discuss that wiyh my teammates because that sounds fake but I know reading people is weak for me.

@Marquis, I cannot tell if that's a buddying smile or if you are happy to see DV.

Titus · Post Post #266 (isolation #27) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:54 pm

Can we get a hammer on choice 1 so we can focus on baning? The argument for choice two just fell away so...

Titus · Post Post #270 (isolation #28) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:03 pm

@Marquis, That's how I feel about bane/no bane but my team has told me that ship sailed. What do you think of baning Mastina?

@Tammy, that's making more sense. ABR is also telling me to lay off a bit so...

Titus · Post Post #298 (isolation #29) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:03 pm

Tammy if you are confident in Zar scum, why not vote to Bane him?

Titus · Post Post #300 (isolation #30) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:07 pm

Derp Titus...

Titus · Post Post #305 (isolation #31) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:20 pm

Tammy, can you make a case that is not filtered through Empire? I don't have that type of knowledge so I cannot tell baggage from legit cases.

GiF, gettig link.

Titus · Post Post #308 (isolation #32) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:23 pm

In post 295, Tammy wrote:
In post 291, DeasVail wrote:
In post 290, Zar wrote:
In post 285, DeasVail wrote:Zar, would it be possible to elaborate a bit on Empire's meta townread of me?

He's around now, he says that off the top of his head, you're self conscious and a lot more stiff and awkward when you're scum; basically your care a lot more about your image; when you're town you're more relaxed and don't really have a filter (he's going off the top of his head, he hasn't played with you in like a year).

Why does he have a confident read in me then if it's off the top of his head?

Because they are bullshitting a conversation they are not actually having. Well I mean they're having it now, but it's because they're pretending to discuss reads instead of actually have them.

Empire knows that I know he can read me pretty well and he'd be happy to catch me as scum. In the last westeros game, when MINA wasn't sure if I was scum she depended on empires read, who was spectating the game. Empire was my other head in fantasy camp; he has a pretty good insight into my scum game. And if you remember last year or so's yoloville he said he knew how to make me town tell if he wanted.

He'd tell me where I was going wrong on shadoweh if that slot was actually town and town reading shadoweh because he'd want a perfect town win here if possible and he wouldn't want me going off on a tangent he thought was wrong, and because he knows how I think about this game, he'd talk to me about it not just put me down.

If he were in this game, he'd probably do something close to that anyway because he'd be 1) playing to get a town read from me and 2) wouldn't want conflict. He can not do these things here because he wouldn't care because he's not the one in the direct conflict and leaving a message that's just putting me down instead of doing anything constructive he knows would bite and get me upset and then discredit me. And that slot is doing it on purpose because they're svum.

For GiF.

Titus · Post Post #310 (isolation #33) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:28 pm

Kinda hard to evaluate without knowledge of the underlying baggage.

Titus · Post Post #317 (isolation #34) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:42 pm

In post 316, vezokpiraka wrote:I'm getting scummy vibes from tammy. It might be jsut her excitement, but something is weird.

People should follow marquis and bane gg.

Why? I want to Bane Mastina until she posts.

Titus · Post Post #320 (isolation #35) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:50 pm

Zar, what do you think? Empire is not playing this game, you are.

Titus · Post Post #323 (isolation #36) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:56 pm

What do you mean by "extended scum team"? Any scumteam should not want conftown, unless its me. I suck as conftown.

Titus · Post Post #327 (isolation #37) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:03 pm

@Zar, No. Refresh me.

Titus · Post Post #331 (isolation #38) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:11 pm

@Fferylt, I am torn here. Tammy is so confident in her Zar read I want to shake it loose and see what happens but I really don't like Mastina lurking.

Titus · Post Post #340 (isolation #39) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:20 pm

@GiF, Espy's in this game but he is a little nuts so I am giving him a little leeway. He will obvtown or obvscum without pressure...hopefully.

Mastina is someone who I took parts of both my town and scum games from. I fear her, so her not posting is especially alarming to me. Pressure can stop her from entering an act if she's scum.

Titus · Post Post #343 (isolation #40) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:25 pm

@Bulba, Mastina townread...huh?

Titus · Post Post #352 (isolation #41) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:44 pm

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

Titus · Post Post #355 (isolation #42) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:48 pm

In post 354, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 352, Titus wrote:@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

I don't think this is something you should be pursuing.
You should go back to whatever you were doing.

Antitown or stupid to pursue that?

Titus · Post Post #359 (isolation #43) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:55 pm

@Bulba, It's not a scumread on Mastina..yet. It's more of a get your ass in here, you are scaring me. I don't like being unsettled by her.

Titus · Post Post #362 (isolation #44) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:58 pm

@Bulba, I will hold you to that.

Bane: Zar

Titus · Post Post #369 (isolation #45) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:41 pm

Good night guys. I'll catch you tomorrow.

Titus · Post Post #428 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:21 am

In post 408, T S O wrote:I'm null-scumreading Titus for a discrepancy in her posts I didn't feel she actually addressed. I think the handwave of "read my posts pls" was stupid, and I don't see it coming from town-Titus as easily as scum-Titus.

In post 421, T S O wrote:I agree with that readslist 100%, except for me, natch.

Though I'd create a middle section and probably stuff people like Marquis into it.

Umm what?

420 has me as town. There's a shift in the posts here that makes no sense to me.

Also, your "contradiction" is reading comprehension issues. *shrug*

Bulba's also pretty town, just in case anyone's wondering.

Titus · Post Post #439 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:21 am

That would be great TSO.

@UT, what purpose does baiting reasons out of ffery do at this juncture serve other than making her easier to discredit? I am sure she will provide reasons at the end. Also AD is not lurking, so I don't get your issue. Sounds like you are attacking solely to attack.

Titus · Post Post #443 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:31 am

Ok I am down for baning UT or Zar, whichever has more.

Titus · Post Post #457 (isolation #49) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:43 am

In post 450, ChannelDelibird wrote:Y'all should wait for UT to explain it before you start speculating on what the explanation might be, yo. You even get a PT with rantbuddies with whom you can chew it over in the meantime.

PTs are for aiding play and stopping tunnels. They are not for filtering every opinion. Transparency is best. Teammates correct if we miss something.

Townreads become harder to get as everything gets filtered if we use that approach.

Titus · Post Post #459 (isolation #50) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:46 am

Sorry...I misunderstood I think.

Titus · Post Post #467 (isolation #51) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:11 am

UT is scum. He's just posting crap to piss people off. Town UT is observant.

Titus · Post Post #477 (isolation #52) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:43 am

In post 469, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 467, Titus wrote:UT is scum. He's just posting crap to piss people off. Town UT is observant.

meta is trash.

Generally, yes. Personality no.

Titus · Post Post #490 (isolation #53) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:40 am

In post 482, T S O wrote:
In post 439, Titus wrote:That would be great TSO.

Yes, Titus, it would be great.

I genuinely have no idea what this is meant to be and interacting you is beginning to make my head hurt already.

You offered to outline why you originally scumread.

My response...that would be great. I seriously do not get your confusion.

Titus · Post Post #496 (isolation #54) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:30 am

What's a seratim list?

Titus · Post Post #502 (isolation #55) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:53 am

TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

Titus · Post Post #507 (isolation #56) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:56 am

Espy, twas a reaction test. The closest anyone claim to calling you scum was basically wondering why I wanted Mastina pressured over you when neither of you posted.

Titus · Post Post #509 (isolation #57) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:58 am

In post 506, Espeonage wrote:
In post 502, Titus wrote:TSO, I asked you to read my posts because I felt you were misunderstanding me and I was repeating myself.

You think I lie for no reason???

The booze is for me tonight to try to make sense of this.

@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

That sounds like null bulba. Pls don't declare things that aren't true.

hella yeah this game is gonna be easy.

Nah, scum Bulba is a lurksack who has trouble faking the same consistency of thought with tone.

Titus · Post Post #511 (isolation #58) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:58 am

It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

Titus · Post Post #516 (isolation #59) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:03 am

Well I have never done TM so I will suppose that he could be having help. His lower post count makes that more possible but the wuick reactions do not look like being coached.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree for now though on Bulba.

You think I am scum because we disagree on a read?

Titus · Post Post #519 (isolation #60) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:05 am

In post 515, DeasVail wrote:
In post 511, Titus wrote:It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

I do perceive some buddying with you, from Marquis and then UT. Can't Tell if Marquis is actually buddying or not because of the exclamation points fogging that up. You commented on UT yourself a little.

So I don't see that post as wierd just a disagreement about perceptions.

We do tend to like people who like us, so the alarm isn't wierd.

Titus · Post Post #521 (isolation #61) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:15 am

You were possibly buddying DV.

Titus · Post Post #525 (isolation #62) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:18 am

I thought you were but I cannot find you even mentioning him in your ISO.

I will take my dunce cap and sit over here now.

Titus · Post Post #528 (isolation #63) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:20 am

In post 523, Espeonage wrote:Hey Titus. Quick question.

Why is buddying of any importance when there has been no flip yet?

Because we like people who like us. So scum can buddy by being likable.

@DV, What am I ingoring?

Titus · Post Post #530 (isolation #64) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:21 am

In post 527, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 525, Titus wrote:I thought you were but I cannot find you even mentioning him in your ISO.

I will take my dunce cap and sit over here now.

let's find it though so you can add the target to your spreadsheet of interactions

I just said it does not exist.

You want me to find something that does not exist...

To put it in a spreadsheet...that does not exist...

Titus · Post Post #531 (isolation #65) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:22 am

Ffery your response got cut off.

Titus · Post Post #538 (isolation #66) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:34 am

The first paragraph doesn't look wierd.

The second paragraph is fine too, remembering that not townreading someone does not necessitate scumreading them.

I don't see where Bulba's acting superior but I have been told I am an arrogant ass sometime so maybe I am immune.

He sees you as indecisive. I amnot really seeing you push a Zar/UT/Gamma bane, just voting. So I see where Bulba thinks that.

Marquis's awkward speech stands out. I don't really remember Zar just Empire. That's why I have a problem there.

Titus · Post Post #540 (isolation #67) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:40 am

In post 533, fferyllt wrote:ergh not in my experience. though most of my experience with scum bulba is multiball.

Mostly singleball here. Yet at lot of my games got deleted so blah...

Titus · Post Post #541 (isolation #68) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:42 am

@DV, Join me on Zar. If you think Bulba's scum discrediting emotional play, then he's indirectly wanting to discredit Tammy. We all know she made an emotional plea to vote Zar based on the Empire stuff. The only reason to do that as scum is Bulba/Zar.

Titus · Post Post #560 (isolation #69) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:10 pm

In post 550, Marquis wrote:I have a lot of large theme scumgames that are much better than that Mini Theme! IIRC last summer like 6/8 of my large themes were scum!

And I would mention the other less common side of my meta here but I actually can't remember a recent completed large towngame on this account off the top of my head! :/ For the record, since I've already made it semi-public, I was FIN3 in Hilariously Unbalanced 2 though, so that kind of counts if you can get past the whole me-trying-to-pretend-I'm-me-but-not-me thing.!

It's really weird that you guys especially Tammy aren't just ignoring me as usual and focusing on people she knows well, but I guess I should like bask in the moment or something!? IDK!

And I almost forgot about the exclamation points this post so good thing I remembered before hitting submit!

This makes a lot of the end game of HU2 make more sense.

The exclamations are what I feel is awkward. It's harder to tell what you think is important.

Also moonlogic is generally considered a towntell of mine. Communists does not happen often. If I knew communists were a red herring, I would have won.

Titus · Post Post #562 (isolation #70) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:12 pm

In post 558, Marquis wrote:Ok so I keep seeing Titus making posts like "sorry" and "derp Titus" and "this is another post that acknowledges I was wrong about something right after someone made a comment on it instead of 5-10 pages of long drawn out argument afterward" and while my last game with her she was scum and pushed moonlogic through while ignoring anything to the contrary, it's really jarring to see because of how much it clashes with her overall mafia personality or at least what I think it's like!

UT mentioned it earlier in this game, the whole "I have mafia ~figured out~" thing and it feels like it could be that Titus is trying to shy away from the blowback she's getting for that facet of her personality! I just can't figure out if it's town Titus reacting to a different environment/standard or trying to do better/be more appealing which kind of makes sense mirrorwise or scum trying to lessen the negative attention!

It's easier when I am objectively wrong or when people I know want me to get my town win are actively helping me be better at town. If I realize I am objectively wrong, I do say so.

Titus · Post Post #565 (isolation #71) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:19 pm

@Tammy, Now I know why you can never read me. Indirect assaults are MUCH better for scum. Subtly dropping emotion is bad or other associations make it much easier to believe something untrue. So he gets other people to defend Zar based on the subconscious hearing of bad emotional play while he can be bussing Zar fir cred.

It's a bit of a stretch in this instance but it's pretty much the only way I see Bulba scum atm.

The whole repitition makes it seem true is why I aggressively defend townreads. I want to say my townreads are town so people see they are town.

Pedit: Epic Wall arrived.

Titus · Post Post #567 (isolation #72) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:26 pm

@Marquis, Generally people do not trust me after I kick ass as scum, even if I don't win. I also like people checking my thoughts and throwing a smidge of dirt on me so I don't become too obvtown.

I also did believe communists were present. :'( I don't save face post game.

I kinda knew you both had to be vigs that game. An SK shoots the cop sooner.

Titus · Post Post #570 (isolation #73) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:50 pm

I don't see Bulba as scum outside of that theory.

Also, no one's assured conftown but I like you, FFery likes you, my team likes you, hell everyone I am townreading likes you and there's nothing you have done to make me suspicios, so no, not really too paranoid. I will be checking your logic as we progress though and if I am wrong, I will see it or my team will.

Titus · Post Post #582 (isolation #74) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:08 pm

Bulba is an ok bane choice if we bane someone else and lynch Zar.

Titus · Post Post #583 (isolation #75) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:09 pm

In post 579, Tammy wrote:I want him lynched. I'm trying to think of who to bane in the interim though.

I feel like I'm getting fully caught up, but I also don't think I really will be until tomorrow.

All I know is that we have five hours to choose bane and boon.

I think you meant 5 days...

Titus · Post Post #587 (isolation #76) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:18 pm

In post 586, Marquis wrote:
In post 572, Tammy wrote:Yeah, I realized were FIN3 earlier.

During the game!? Or when I showed up in postgame!?

I was thinking I might have been making it either really obvious or too obvious to be me, but if it's the former then I guess that's a bit disheartening! I shouldn't be but yeah! I need to work more on my alting techniques!

I will be thankful if I do not alt slip.

Titus · Post Post #588 (isolation #77) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:19 pm

Should I bring out drunk!town Titus? No one is home and ABR wants to see it.

Titus · Post Post #590 (isolation #78) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:30 pm

Okie dokie. Just waiting for it to sink in...

Titus · Post Post #594 (isolation #79) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:43 pm

Marwuis in that mini how did Tammy look day 1?

Titus · Post Post #596 (isolation #80) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:45 pm

Tammy, have you ever even rolled scum with me as town? I know we have never been buddies. Marquis mentioning your neta reminds me I cannot remember your scum meta beyond you not obvtowning.

Titus · Post Post #602 (isolation #81) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:51 pm

In post 598, Tammy wrote:
In post 596, Titus wrote:Tammy, have you ever even rolled scum with me as town? I know we have never been buddies. Marquis mentioning your neta reminds me I cannot remember your scum meta beyond you not obvtowning.

Nope!

That explains that. What games do you feel are representative if your scum meta?

Btw, the booze is kicking in.

Titus · Post Post #605 (isolation #82) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:54 pm

So DV, you haven't seen Tammy scum either in your games?

Titus · Post Post #609 (isolation #83) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:04 pm

What do you think of UT/Cheetory trying to predict what scum wanted in post 468? Kinda hard to know without knowing their roles.

@Tammy, Where did only focusing om Zar vome ftom,

Titus · Post Post #617 (isolation #84) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:13 pm

Blah it's a tunnel. It depends on the logic behind. She sounds like she believed it and Zar not pushing anyone but Tammy isn't inconsistent in her posts. I haven't played with T and E to know enough but I think T looks legit.

Titus · Post Post #618 (isolation #85) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:16 pm

Hey gamma, welcome. Why do you think I am surface levele?

How could you miss Tammy Zar?

What do you think of the bane wagon on you?

Lots of words... said nothing useful.

Titus · Post Post #620 (isolation #86) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:20 pm

Kinda frustrated by the bulba hate...he's town in my eyes but I cannot prove it cuz it goes all squishy mushy which I suck st it.

Titus · Post Post #625 (isolation #87) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:50 pm

@Gamma, That's my early game. Observation and read formation. It's not going to be coherent until I establish my core.

@Empire, Hi. This should be useful. Now I csn read you for you. I take it you have been following. What's your Tammy read and why?

Titus · Post Post #629 (isolation #88) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:57 pm

Not liking the AtE against DV. That's wifom. If Zar drew scum unwillingly, you'd be the best to save it as he relied on you.

Talk to me on our level when you come back. No emotion. Just facts.

Titus · Post Post #631 (isolation #89) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:59 pm

GiF you drunk too?

Titus · Post Post #633 (isolation #90) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:01 pm

In post 628, Empire wrote:Oh and after you guys inevitably realize that this slot is town, we're bane'ing Gamma. No exceptions (assuming my read-through of this thread or my teammates don't change my mind).

Why?

Titus · Post Post #641 (isolation #91) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:18 pm

I don't see Bulba as comitting AtE so...

@Tammy, I don't think you mean taking Empire to a country bar where you can sing about how their team broke your heart.

Titus · Post Post #654 (isolation #92) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:36 pm

We should Bane Empire Vezok just like I am not opposed to baning Bulba. Baning is used on a collective scumread. Cops vigs doctors potatoe men can all target who we bane thus getting a better picture later.

Titus · Post Post #655 (isolation #93) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:36 pm

This should get facts which makes the game better.

Titus · Post Post #708 (isolation #94) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:02 am

@Bulbazak, So InuYasha is wrong then? I recall you lurking through that.

@Vezok, Why is this town empire?

Titus · Post Post #712 (isolation #95) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:43 am

I agree with Cheetory.

We need to get this bane moving so we can get a boon on. My vote will be on whichever is higher of the top theree.

Titus · Post Post #715 (isolation #96) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:50 am

While discussing scheduling, Saturday afternoons and nights are dungeons and dragons.

I may have to prep a trial this weekend. I will let you know today.

Titus · Post Post #752 (isolation #97) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:39 am

I am in a good mood. Someone got me a deck of mafia cards for hosting a meet. Plus no trial to prep for. I hope this thread keeps me there.

So if that nice anonymous soul is stalking my posts, thank you. Made my day.

Titus · Post Post #775 (isolation #98) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:47 am

In post 754, ChannelDelibird wrote:Diving into this now. Empire, CES says to tell you that if you'd like to suggest an alternative hard-to-read player than lurky vezok, that'd be fine too. As far as my own experience with vezok goes, the only one I remember is a game in which I was scum so didn't have to read him. So I've pretty much accepted CES's description at face value, having no reason not to do so.

Also, the Black Goo are agreed that Baning Empire is a bad idea and that you should all stop. I like all of the other currently voted-for options better.

Lurky Vezok, what? I disagree with his positions but calling him lurky is wrong.

@Tammy/Empire, I want to solve you two and not have any more Tammy v Empire fighting. If you are both town, we cannot afford in fighting. If one or either of you is scum, we need it resolved so the gamestate does not stagnate. If you're down, I would like to do socratic method with you both.

Titus · Post Post #785 (isolation #99) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:25 am

In post 782, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 775, Titus wrote:@Tammy/Empire, I want to solve you two and not have any more Tammy v Empire fighting. If you are both town, we cannot afford in fighting. If one or either of you is scum, we need it resolved so the gamestate does not stagnate. If you're down, I would like to do socratic method with you both.

oh get over yourself

you're not going to figure out their alignments with any real degree of certainty right now

and trying to play peacemaker is just part of the shell game you're trying to set up to have people depend on you

igmeoy

Wow..you wonder why I do not like you. Yes I am capable of figuring out alugnments. I have my own way of tackling things.This is another example of you saying pointlessly controversial things.

The last thing I want is the game in my hands. I want this set up so that I am not depended on but we reach a resolution.

I don't think anyone is going to depend on me in a) early game or b) a behavioral read without loads of justification and planning based on setup. I don't like games where people depend on me. That is why I hate obvtown games.

What about that post made you think I was making myself seem important?

Titus · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:19 pm

@CDB, Did you ever answer 129? There's an inherent condtradiction between baning the scummiest player and protecting who we bane. Not sure if you answered that but looking through my ISO to see 148 reminded me of that.

Titus · Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:22 pm

In post 788, T S O wrote:The only scenario where I don't want to Bane Bulbazak is the one where we're lynching him instead.

My team has talked a little about my tunnelling and this looks problematic tunnelly. By shutting down and declaring all plans must assume Bulba is scum, you shut him out. If he's town, that's bad for obvious reasons. If he's scum, he won't post and give relative information.

Titus · Post Post #797 (isolation #102) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:38 pm

@UT, It's also decent townplay to figure out people's alignments.

Also, you have no idea what the socratic method is if you think that I would be learning the most through it. The person asking the questions learns something, but its more designed to flesh out arguments and teach than it is to deduce. I figure out their arguments and why they feel that way, I can solve them. Tammy and Empire gain more of an understanding of each other as the questions that help them frame why they think that way is set up by someone neutral. If you were familiar with the socratic method, it's not a perfect teaching method and usually discouraged by law students but I like it because it shows statements and flaws for what they are.

Anyone skilled in the socratic method could actually do it. I try to do it occasionally but it's usually viewed with suspicion but since Empire knew what it was and its purpose, I figured he might be more inclined to agree to it.

Nothing I've posted is non-sense. You're painting my comments as OMGUS after I've highlighted your pattern of pointless confrontation is noted. Your comments do nothing to actually foster an intelligent dialogue and make me more inclined to ignore you, but I've been told not to ignore anyone unless I convince them you're outright lying so here's your gift a lecture on the purposes and motivations of socratic discourse.

@CDB, If we are not clearly reading someone we bane, protecting them is foolish if we have content surrounding the player. If scum kill them, they give us a lot of information.

Titus · Post Post #798 (isolation #103) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:38 pm

In post 795, T S O wrote:
In post 791, Titus wrote:
In post 788, T S O wrote:The only scenario where I don't want to Bane Bulbazak is the one where we're lynching him instead.

My team has talked a little about my tunnelling and this looks problematic tunnelly. By shutting down and declaring all plans must assume Bulba is scum, you shut him out. If he's town, that's bad for obvious reasons. If he's scum, he won't post and give relative information.

If he lies, he lies. It's that simple for me.

What do you think he lied about?

Titus · Post Post #803 (isolation #104) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:43 pm

In post 796, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 794, Shadoweh wrote:ad-hominem attacks

tell your team to learn what ad hominem means and then get back to me

I think their team has a good grip on its common uses.

Ad hominen attacks are attacks made to discredit the speaker rather than focusing on the arguments. For instance, when you said I was "making myself look more important than I was" is properly considered an ad hominen attack. It doesn't discuss the logic of whether getting Tammy and Empire to talk is good, or even whether my method is the most effective. Instead, you attacked me for presenting it, saying it's an attempt at towncred for getting people to work together.

@UT, Some people can be found out day 1. Others can't. There's a reason why the adage of Tammy being obvtown if town is true (usually). I've seen plenty of people use that adage, so I would suppose her alignment is solvable early on. Setting that aside, why quibble over a tactic you think is good because you think I overestimated something? Just say, I think you overestimated but it's a good idea.

Titus · Post Post #805 (isolation #105) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:45 pm

In post 802, Untrod Tripod wrote:nor are you addressing the fact that I believe that you are trying to play peacemaker to make yourself look town

for what it's worth have you not for a moment considered that I'm butting heads with you on purpose?

I figured you had some sort of agenda randomly attempting to piss people off, it just appears an attempt to throw mud. Doubly so because it occurred after I attacked you.

I have addressed it. Did I forget the obligatory, I'm town comment so of course I look town. Elaborating more on theory is actually quite scummy and hides the actual facts in play.

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to discuss actual reads with TSO. K. Thanks.

Titus · Post Post #806 (isolation #106) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:47 pm

In post 800, T S O wrote:
In post 780, T S O wrote:
In post 657, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 402, T S O wrote:
Am I the only one who finds Bulbazak's thought process here bizarre as fuck?

Bulba: "oh I'm mad that I made a post and hito locked the thread"
GIF: "you should have used the Back button"
Bulba: "meh didn't want it anyway"

Surely there'd be better ways to do this as scum, if I'd even say such a thing in the first place. Such a comment is guaranteed to draw attention. Focusing on such statements as a basis for a scum lean is also just silly.

But this post doesn't actually address any of my concerns about what is, to my eyes right now, you straight-up lying for no good reason.

"Surely there'd be better ways to do this as scum" - Sure. The point remains you did it. Scum don't play optimally 100% of the time.
"if I'd even say such a thing in the first place" - Well, that's irrelevant, seeing as you -did- say it.
"Such a comment is guaranteed to draw attention." - Yes, correct, but this is
still
pointing out simple logic rather than addressing anything.
"Focusing on such statements as a basis for a scum lean is also just silly" - Why is this? This is the only thing you said that has any relevance to my point.

I still don't understand why you made a post, then didn't post it, then moaned about not being able to even though it was easily retrievable with one click. I'm starting to believe this post never existed, because if it did, then your actions are so incredibly illogical that it's physically not believable for me.

So the only real question I have left to ask after this post is ...why are you lying to us? Because scum in a game like this really, really don't want to admit that they were caught in a lie, and your reaction fits that pretty well.

Ok break this down for me. I'm just seeing a quibble here, so maybe that's why I missed it.

So there's a locking of the thread. You're saying Bulba caused it, and that he had a missing unretrievable post. I've had that happen before, so where's the lie? I think you think it's there (there's no need to throw more dirt with made up given how many people scumread Bulba) but why do it?

Titus · Post Post #808 (isolation #107) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:52 pm

In post 804, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 803, Titus wrote:For instance, when you said I was "making myself look more important than I was" is properly considered an ad hominen attack

I'm not attacking you the person, I'm attacking what you were doing and what I perceived as its motivations

don't be ridiculous

That's still ad hominen. Logic isn't about motivation. It's about what's true and what isn't true. You wanted to stop me because you thought it was a power play. That's not based in logic. That's based in fear and discrediting.

Is it true that Tammy and Empire should settle their differences? We both agree they should discuss and attempt to. So why are you upset that I brought it up? You're attack on me was an attempt to stop them from working together by painting my actions as in a scummy light. Ad hominen and appeal to emotion.

When you see an entire team disagreeing with you, that's when you re-evaluate. Right now, I'd be even more full of hostile quips and calling you scummy but my team wants me to hold back and engage in dialogue but it must be constructive.

Again the comment about being "smarter than you" doesn't do anything to foster actual conversations. It's more of an attempt to anger me. I've never postulated that I'm smarter than you, nor do I care for such posturing. WE all are smart in different ways.

I may not get emotion well, but I do know logic and I do understand when a tunnel is coming about.

Titus · Post Post #812 (isolation #108) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:15 pm

In post 811, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 808, Titus wrote:You wanted to stop me because you thought it was a power play. That's not based in logic. That's based in fear and discrediting.

that doesn't make it wrong

in this game you have to play on people's emotions. it's all about political positioning and leveraging people's motivations into being useful to you. logic is all well and good, but analyzing motivations is a powerful tool if you want to find scum.

I understand you have your method based in formal logic, which I imagine has served you well at times, but you're ignoring the other half of the game by acting like you can solve the game with formal logic. there's always going to be uncertainty no matter how good your method is.

I agree that at Day 1 you are right. Hence why I suck at day 1, which is why I want Tammy to flesh out that read. I'm sheeping it but if Tammy doesn't believe it. I have to get that logic to get a foothold. I fill in with emotion only where logical thought does not exist.

@Ffery, Sorry. Being pedantic is a defensive mechanism if I've been told I cannot snap/get angry, I verbally spar. I try not to but it is my nature.

Titus · Post Post #814 (isolation #109) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:33 pm

@UT, I should be. The goal is to be enjoyable. I don't care if I win if I'm ruining someone else's enjoyment. FFery was clear that it would make her hate it.

Also, some Tripod told me this is an emotional game and I should respect how people feel. I go no idea who made that. The guy looks like a cat from a small cool town in North Carolina.

Titus · Post Post #822 (isolation #110) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:46 pm

@Gamma, I'm liking that thought from you. Talking about optimal scumplay is difficult in a wacky setup like this. Some things are inherently obvious, for instance scum want more kills.

I'd rather curious as to your stance on Bulba.

Titus · Post Post #835 (isolation #111) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:04 pm

In post 834, Tammy wrote:Are you referring to this?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21696

This has me as listed as scum but not that our team won.

I clicked the link to your open normal in that post. It linked me to the game. I found out you won in the second post so your point is lost on me.

Unbane

Titus · Post Post #836 (isolation #112) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:05 pm

In post 831, Gammagooey wrote:also bulba's reponse to deas seems super excessive and fillery but that's probably a lot more likely to be me being confirmation biased than the rest of what I think about him.

It's ok. I think the game is suffering from collective confbias and not really talking to each other. I'm trying to remedy that but I suck at it.

Titus · Post Post #845 (isolation #113) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:29 pm

In post 840, Shadoweh wrote:
In post 836, Titus wrote:
It's ok. I think the game is suffering from collective confbias and not really talking to each other. I'm trying to remedy that but I suck at it.

I think this game is suffering from collective confusion over what baning means and whether they should be voting who they want lynched or a confusing scumread. I would prefer Bulbasaur over Gamma but Gamma isn't a bad call I guess? Empire is either getting lynched or not.

That's the problem. Both are good. Neither is really optimal as we could even pick a category and not everyone would agree.

As long as we're baning someone widely scumread or someone you scumread it should not be a problem.

If scum kill someone largely regarded as suspicious, then we can look at who pushed it. Why were they wrong? Were the arguments they used good?
If scum leave that player alive, we have investigations on them and methods of determining their alignment.

The rest is quibbling. We're arguing over which good option to take. By dickering, we're going to lose booning. If we don't get a boon, baning someone is a partial loss as scum also get that information and many levels of wifom emerge in interpreting that.

Given the bane will move the game along, I'm not opposed to baning Bulba even though I'm townreading him pretty hard. It allows for correction for whoever is wrong.

Titus · Post Post #846 (isolation #114) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:31 pm

In post 842, Tammy wrote:
In post 839, Marquis wrote:
In post 832, Tammy wrote:What I also don't understand is if you really got paranoid of me, why are you adamant about baning empire?

As for this I feel like everyone else is assuming you guys are town versus scum!? I'm not sure but this time around I really don't like the certainty there of "one ~or~ the other" and it's like I keep thinking you guys could both be scum because I don't like Empire but then I also think your Zar focus was also kind of overdone!

I'm not a fan of the either/or thing either.

I don't feel like it was over done at all. Every point I made was valid; whether or not it correctly points to scum is something I'll figure out eventually.

Your confidence is precisely why I followed you though. I know I'm not hot at the early game. I was told to cool my jets and play well with others. We all liked your confidence and that you sounded town from that conviction.

Leaving it doesn't make much sense in that context and throws me off a bit.

Titus · Post Post #850 (isolation #115) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:47 pm

In post 847, Shadoweh wrote:I'm confused by people talking about the boon though, we already voted on the Boon didn't we? We're just Baning to make sure we get it?

We can't elect who gets a Boon until we bane someone. It's the rules.

Titus · Post Post #853 (isolation #116) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:51 pm

@Shadoweh, I'll move later tonight. The reactions on this need to be processed a little more slowly.

Right now, I'm leaning towards baning Bulba just to prove I'm right but I shouldn't let pride be a motivating factor. I should stick with the facts.

@Tammy, I agree with point 2, which is why I explained to Ffery why I picked town. I didn't feel it was discrediting to factor in people's assumed preferences. It's wifom and not very useful from my perspective but not discrediting. If that same point came up as a disarm to an argument, I'd have a totally different feel about it.

Titus · Post Post #856 (isolation #117) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:09 pm

Shadoweh, I'll Bane Bulba with you. I've decided it. Fuck it. No evidence just go with emotion and damn it I want to be right. We also need to get onto booning.

Bane:Bulba

Titus · Post Post #859 (isolation #118) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:06 pm

In post 858, Empire wrote:I'm going to head off to sleep because I haven't been feeling super well today in general, but Tammy, I'll respond to your post more fully tomorrow and I'll relay whatever Regfan has in response as well.

One thing I will say, though, regarding the Nacho/ffery situation: when Nacho posted, me and my team pretty much immediately spotted it and were furious. I honestly believed ffery was going to get modkilled. So I guess I expected something a bit more extreme to manifest itself in the thread as opposed to outside of it.

Why did you expect a more extreme reaction? An extreme reaction would have outed scum no?

Titus · Post Post #863 (isolation #119) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:24 pm

I was kinda wondering whether Tammy was smiling at Nacho or Ffery's comment about posting later. It's clear from her post replies she was reading backwards. She does the smile, then hits 102 and then 98. If it happened to be a delayed reaction, then why wouldn't she actually stop the reply train and give a more detailed reaction?

I can kinda see what you mean but ugh not my field.

Has she ever had an understated reaction as scum before?

Titus · Post Post #865 (isolation #120) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Conftown doesn't mean confright. Sure FFery has an inherent credibility bonus in that she didn't find the reaction that big a deal, but that's because she's known town. Empire isn't. By looking at his arguments, I can understand him and Ffery can tell me if it's ridiculous. No point in cutting off investigation because Ffery didn't comment. No one comments on every post.

I like him walking through the thought process step by step. If you are town, there will be a fallacy somewhere.

Titus · Post Post #872 (isolation #121) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:14 pm

In post 868, Tammy wrote:And furthermore it's my reaction being discussed. I have ever single right to discuss people's views in my reaction.

Right but what does belitting Empire get you other than shutting off conversation? You know you're town so this seems ridiculous to you. It's not to me. I'm pretty sure you're town, so I want to have Empire flesh out his thoughts to proceed on investigating him as well as you.

Titus · Post Post #877 (isolation #122) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:21 pm

In post 873, Tammy wrote:
In post 872, Titus wrote:
In post 868, Tammy wrote:And furthermore it's my reaction being discussed. I have ever single right to discuss people's views in my reaction.

Right but what does belitting Empire get you other than shutting off conversation? You know you're town so this seems ridiculous to you. It's not to me. I'm pretty sure you're town, so I want to have Empire flesh out his thoughts to proceed on investigating him as well as you.

And how am I belttleing empire again?

By calling his thoughts ridiculous and using hilarious in the way you did. It screams "Don't give this any time. Don't bother." I don't like that when it's done to me when I'm in Empire's place and that happens a lot.

Titus · Post Post #880 (isolation #123) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:37 pm

Nah, it's not a discredit at all Tammy. It's me actually investigating you based on your reaction. Just because I'm townreading you doesn't mean I stop investigating you.

I haven't concluded anything based on how you're supposed to react. I haven't said how you were supposed to react.

There's a reason why I asked if scumTammy even has understated reactions to him. If the answer is no, then the whole point Empire is bringing up is irrelevant. That's exactly what I wanted him to present. If there is a history of making an understated reaction, I would be discussing it with my team to see if it was a valid emotional reaction. I do rely on them and the answers to matter.

Please don't suppose I'm saying how people should react when I'm investigating something. Just ask for a clarification of my posts. It will help things go smoother.

Titus · Post Post #882 (isolation #124) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:39 pm

If you want examples of subtle discrediting, read the scumgames I've done well in. Just look at the ISO and compare with who was lynched and when.

Titus · Post Post #883 (isolation #125) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:40 pm

In post 881, Aronis wrote:
In post 783, ChannelDelibird wrote:
@Aronis:
Hi.

Hi!

Hey, I'd love your thoughts... but please avoid emotion land if you can.

Titus · Post Post #886 (isolation #126) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:42 pm

Umm yeah, that was more efficient Shadoweh.

Good night Tammy.

Titus · Post Post #889 (isolation #127) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:49 pm

Not surprised the game feels off. I haven't torn anyone's head off. I've been told not to.

We're getting around to that boon, hell or high water.

Titus · Post Post #892 (isolation #128) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:55 pm

I think Bulba is at L-2 with Aronis's vote. We added GiF and Aronis at the last count and Bulba was at L-4.

Titus · Post Post #895 (isolation #129) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:57 pm

GiF, Let's see what the boon is before deciding. FFery might be a better choice. Tammy's not a bad choice if FFery cannot get the boon.

Titus · Post Post #899 (isolation #130) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:00 pm

In post 896, GuyInFreezer wrote:I know that feeling

that's how scumcho gets past me every time

Scum!Nacho is a beast. I am very glad FFery didn't draw scum. Played IRL with Nacho at various CA meets. He totally whooped my ass.

Titus · Post Post #902 (isolation #131) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:01 pm

In post 897, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 895, Titus wrote:GiF, Let's see what the boon is before deciding. FFery might be a better choice. Tammy's not a bad choice if FFery cannot get the boon.

Fery dies after d1 :/

Yes, and if the boon is FFery gets to pick something that happens or somesuch, then FFery getting and deciding prior to nightfall is good.

Titus · Post Post #903 (isolation #132) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:03 pm

In post 898, Tammy wrote:
unbane

I shouldn't make drugged choices.

Tammy, the choice has been essentially made. *shrug* No one really thinks Bulba's town but me and I think maybe one or two other people. He's a decent bane to allow investigators to investigate.

Titus · Post Post #904 (isolation #133) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:05 pm

In post 900, Aronis wrote:Isn't the boon whichever choice we made? So it's a 1shot self watching bp vest or whatever.

No. That choice was related to all future doctorish protects. Pretty sure.

Titus · Post Post #908 (isolation #134) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:12 pm

This Boonskiies says that booning that Boonskiies is a boon for town that likes to ski.

Titus · Post Post #912 (isolation #135) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:03 pm

Hi Lichtmann. I'm a sorta close relative to Ackerman. The closest you'll ever see here since no one can really be Ackerman again. That dude was a comedy legend.

GiF, don't sheep me yet. I have no thoughts worth sheeping yet and I'm lost. It would do better to actually look at my arguments in an intellectual debate.

Titus · Post Post #915 (isolation #136) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:13 pm

@GiF, I cannot remember the last time ika townread me in awhile. I am kinda surprised by this, Lichtmann's comedy can be short lived if the sensors find out. Why is ika townreading me enough to invite me into his comedy routine? Especially when I have so little to return other than emulating Lichtmann.

Titus · Post Post #916 (isolation #137) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:15 pm

In post 914, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 794, Shadoweh wrote:DEAR CHANNELDELIBIRD PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION BETWEEN STATING IM TOTES A SCUMREAD

You weren't the only one asking more or less the same question and I figured the post you quoted is as clear an answer as I could give you, though I do apologise for not mentioning you for clarity's sake. It's CES's description, on which he hasn't expanded (I'll leave a note for him to do so if you'd like, but I wouldn't expect a long answer), and I don't know enough about vezok to challenge it.

You should see this game and know Vezok's not lurking. You don't need meta to see that.

Titus · Post Post #919 (isolation #138) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:22 pm

Ooh boy Titus meta debate in 3 2 1...

I have been told moon logic is a town!Titus sign. Then again I never have to read me so...

Titus · Post Post #921 (isolation #139) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:24 pm

Perhaps my meta changed.

I am off to bed to reflect.

Titus · Post Post #925 (isolation #140) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:26 pm

@CDB Keeping your vote elsewhere is a flaw. We know where you stand. Not baning Bulba stalls the boon process. That is not good.

@ika/GiF, I will try to make sense of that tomorrow.

Titus · Post Post #943 (isolation #141) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:41 am

@Bulba, You had some issues keeping up, but even then your post style in that when you did post was completely different from HU2. This mirrors HU2 a lot.

Titus · Post Post #944 (isolation #142) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:42 am

Oh and yes me too on DnD.

Titus · Post Post #946 (isolation #143) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:54 am

Hilariously Unbalanced 2. Ika can clue you in on that one in more detail. I looked really town. I needed one guy dead. That was ika. He was three x bp. Bulba was a doctor in an all town hood.

Titus · Post Post #954 (isolation #144) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:17 am

As I have said already, I want to see what the boon is. The mod shall tell us, if he can, shortly.

Titus · Post Post #956 (isolation #145) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:31 am

TTH, come talk to us.

Titus · Post Post #979 (isolation #146) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:09 am

FFery should pick the boon person or the boon pool we vote in. We know scum cannot influence uf she picks directly.

Titus · Post Post #980 (isolation #147) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:10 am

In post 976, Espeonage wrote:Ok that's interesting. I thought I was a VT. :/

Which is part of why I was cool with creating wifom about my sign.

So not everyone has the universal powers that were in the op?

Tammy is still a bad pick.

Ffery was stripped of hers. She's a treestump with a finite lifespan, not a VT.

Titus · Post Post #999 (isolation #148) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:36 am

Ffery are you fine with picking the boon pool, or the boon?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:02 am

Sounds good.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:06 am

GiF, What are the Maniac's other reads?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:11 am

I find it's hard to get team's synched. My team is basically focused on helping me get better rather than reading the game. They'll chime in when I ask a specific question but the rest of my team generally avoids wacky setups.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:42 am

In post 1007, T S O wrote:It's probably best to let ffery decide the Boon, seeing as she's conftown, with good reads and a good team. However, it's a shame in the same way, because a certain someone who would truly love that Boon isn't going to get it.

In FFery's place, if I wasn't sure who was absolutely town, I would include a name or two just to see reactions before my last wall.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:43 am

Empire, it's a bad thing you do. Formal logic is better in mechanics heavy setups. I prefer them because it gives me footing.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:56 am

Yes. They'll see Bulba's town that way. We can focus on more fruitful endevors. Such as lynching Gamma tomorrow.

I wish Delta was in this game. 3 lawyer crusade. Lol.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:17 am

Empire, permission to Garcia?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:29 am

Yes. Garciaing is intervening. The garcia rule means you don't answer a question directed at someone else.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:43 am

And here I was thinking you were relying on ika because he had better knowledge/was better at meta reading.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:51 am

Gamma, who do you think should be baned?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:51 am

Derp booned...

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:02 am

I think he's actually improving. Both town and scum can want to withhold info. Your superhard townread on Vezok basedon that alone is weak.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:11 am

In post 1030, Gammagooey wrote:they can want to withhold info

but they way he did pushed for empire town VERY strongly, in a way that is actually trying really hard to convince people to not go after him, WHILE doing it in a way that would likely get him no town credit whatsoever is very very much a town mindset and not a scum one.

The last part is wifom or false. You are indeed giving him creditfor how he pushed.

Scum can make that same push because it explains a static, unmoving read.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:37 am

VEzok is likely town but not for that shit read. That actually knocked vezok down a few points.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:44 am

Gamma, what other reads do you have?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:38 am

I feel like posting a drunk reads list tonight.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:46 am

I'm rather surprised Gamma didn't develop new reads in the past oh 200ish posts.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:08 pm

If emotion is disney land (the happiest place on earth), lord help us all. Disneyland is nothing more than an overcommericalized of cramped sweaty people desperate to pretend they have a normal youth or people trying to recapture it through their kids.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:49 pm

No drunk readlist tonight. Caught up in IRL.

I am leaning Booning Marquis. I have minor reservations about Tammy which are nit present with Marquis. I don't want the boon because I cannot target worth a damn. DV does not seem to want it. Ffery cannot have it. Don't quite trust Empire enough and I think that's the group there as well. Bulba's never getting a boon lol. It's not optimal to give it to GiF. It's better me and share via comedy club. TSO could get it as well but he seems overeager.

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:58 pm

Why am I starting to worry you?

Titus · Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:14 pm

Derp misread...

So you actually think from your perspective Tammy that me having inaccurate suspicions is good?

I think I need sleep.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:30 am

In post 1127, Shadoweh wrote:Oh no, you've uncovered my secret scum plot to stop you from getting a boon you weren't going to get. I find the fact that no one seems to find you scummy for posting nothing annoying, I'm currently assuming this is normal for you and ignoring you exist. You don't deserve to get something good for talking more about exclamation points then anything else.

I'd probably say that nicer if I hadn't just woke up in my chair. Mornings make me grumpy.

I suspected him for doing something annoying for a brief bit (the exclamations make him hard to read) but his dustup with Tammy was hardly filler posting.

Scum Marquis generally is awkward as fuck consistenly. One of his first scumganes I was town and he took an obvtown slot and obvscummed it in 2 seconds to be lynched. Sabotage mafia he was a Jiffy hydra. While his play was not bd, heis still incredibly awkward and forced. Here, everything seems organic, thoughtful and game related, so I really donot get your issue.

boon: Marquis

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:34 am

In post 1130, T S O wrote:It's bad enough that you're calling us scum solely because we disagree with you being Booned, but when this message is frivolously peppered with exclamation marks, it loses any mild credibility it could have had.

Asking why you are doing something is not meaning he's calling you scum. Also he has been doing the exclamations thing the whole game. If it was such a problem, why not vote then?

This rush and hotheadness is not good, which is why I am not booning you.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:37 am

In post 1133, Untrod Tripod wrote:but seriously

I don't think Marquis deserves a boon

alignment isn't the only thing to consider when gifting a 1-shot power role....

We are not giving a role. We are giving an enhanced detect....

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:38 am

In post 1132, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 1131, Titus wrote:Scum Marquis generally is awkward as fuck consistenly. One of his first scumganes I was town and he took an obvtown slot and obvscummed it in 2 seconds to be lynched. Sabotage mafia he was a Jiffy hydra. While his play was not bd, heis still incredibly awkward and forced. Here, everything seems organic, thoughtful and game related, so I really donot get your issue.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*! someones's talking about behavior !*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Occasionally, that's important. Not a fan but it is Day 1.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:07 am

I think of roles as doing something. At best its akin to a one shot flavor cop but even then not full flavor. This is just an enabler.

As long as were are not giving it to scum, it really should not matter who we give it to. The rest is gravy. So unless you are scumreading Marquis, I do not see the problem?

Can you ekaborate more on #1133 meaning alignment is not the only consideration. I mean there is more targeting skill and who wants it...but beyond that I don't see the other indications.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:25 am

Why do you not trust Marquis to aim well?

A sign is part of flavor and usually triggers abilities. If you cannot target someine without their sign known, sign knowledge is an enabler. So its not perfect but close.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:30 am

Then don't be nice. Labels suck. Reasons are great.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:23 pm

We need to close boon ranks soon enough. FFery if you think the candidates are terrible, let us know. Weekends tend to be slow on here. I will be out tomorrow..

Sunday at 7 PM is the boon deadline. If you want a new boon wagon, it better have a lot of strong reasoning.

If we haven't decided by Saturday/Sunday daybreak, boon should be cut further.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:40 pm

@Marquis, Personality does not change much. There are others I would rather boon, like DV, but he does not want it.

@Cheetory, why are you booning a guy who said he did not want the boon.

@TSO, Your hyperactive and hotheaded nature as town was evident before we started this game. 1130 is an example of that. I am pretty sure people don't want me booned because they think I am insane/moonlogicky. One example would not be a sudden revelation. Make sense? You display that nature frequently.

@Ffery, Having discussion go on is good because it gets us reads. If we had enough time to boon a target you pick, that's true regardless of the discussion that we had or did not have. If anyone hammers before you select candidates unless deadline is rapidly approaching, it would still be a scumclaim. You are not being cut out.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:52 pm

Can you explain why Tammy? The general consensus is Vezok is town.

@TSO, you have not contained your hotheadedness at all. That's why I am townreading you. This is team mafia and thus different in ways I will not fully understand til post game but all things being considered I would go with someone I have no reservations and generally plays a good emotional game early on. Late game, I would pick you over Marquis because you are less vilnerable to keeping feel good reads that are wrong. There is also zero guarantee you listen to your team. Your votile reputation does nothing to sway me.

You should be commended for trying to play better with emotions. I am trying to do the same. Tryig does not equal achieving though.

The more you beg, the less inclined I am to give it to you.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:39 pm

In post 1202, Aronis wrote:
In post 1201, Espeonage wrote:Asks fery's opinion. Votes against fery opinion when it also has support.

Did you forget to quote a post or something?

Yes. Ffery hasn't explicitly given her boon choice I thought.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:41 pm

In post 1167, fferyllt wrote:I have a ton of catch up to do sitewide because real life is kicking my butt this week. I'll firm up and explain my reasoning as soon as I can.

As of here, I still think she's undecided as she needs to firm up her reasoning.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:59 pm

But then she says Cheetory also fits the profile...

Without knowing her thoughts, I cannot figure that out.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:29 pm

Bulba, Logically yes the consensus Vezok being town means nothing and can suck. That's why I was asking for an explanation of why Vezok was being scumread.

Gamma's place fails for another reason. No PR can act without sign knowledge or lucky chance which means PRs likely will not trace but detect. Getting a positive trace is something that can be used later to analyze claims later but its not effective now. I think most realized that.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:42 pm

In post 1212, Bulbazak wrote:Okay. So hard scum reads on Marquis and Aronis.

Why? I like them both as town.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:43 pm

Aronis a l8ttle less so but...

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:44 pm

What are you thinking of Mastina Bulba?

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:13 pm

Bulba, I really liked that conversation with Tammy. The Devil's advocate based in sound reason is goid. While I admit I didn't read them in detail, the interaction indicated some thing that Tammy was off on her own meta.

I see plenty of substance in his posts. I recommend during nightfall that you try to reboot with a cran vod. It's on thing to have a wierd read you are criticized forbut you seem to be disagreeing with a bulk of the game on a bulk of the reads while not being as present. Even if you are right, that pattern screams lynch me.

You did something similiar to the oh shit with the Vezok read. Marquis stating Tammy could be fooling us is the same thing as being wary of too much agreement.

The Aronis read flows quite a bit more. I can see the lack of substance but that's because he's hardly around. Rarely anything is fluff to me though.

I agree on digging into Mastina more but she should catch up or sub out soon. I literally just finished a game where one scum player lurked a good chunk of the game and no one lynched him.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:32 pm

That's my perception of things. It makes the most sense as to why so many people are scumreading you. At least that's when I tend to be wagoned.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:48 pm

@Bulba, I will reread later on Marquis. Talk it over with your team. I don't see your situation as unsolvable though.

Titus · Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:49 pm

And speak of the she-devill...looking forward to your catchup mastina.

I amout most of tomorrow. Good luck.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:21 am

Unbane

@Ffery, now that's clear.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:18 am

Boon: Vezok

I would rather Boon Cheetory out of the options given as Bulbazak has concerns about Vezok I would want fleshed out. Yet with Vezok having the only viable wagon and me being out most of the day plus not scumreading Vezok myself, my boon vote should go here.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:23 am

In post 1238, T S O wrote:Untrod Tripod? Is this a late, late April Fools joke?

Just pick which one you want. We don't have time for drama.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:57 am

In post 1253, T S O wrote:If I had an insta-Vig, I'd shoot Untrod Tripod for a multitude of reasons.

Don't make me reconsider my townread on you.

First you are pretending passionate people don't do what they feel is right despite the team saying otherwise.
Now you're wanting to vig UT for a multitude of reasons you are not even mentioning.

This is looking like you are just attacking anyone who does not boon you or is a boon alternative.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:21 am

@FFery, While I respect a process, a wise person once said to me that mafia cannot be broken down systemically. I disagree partially, as votes can have that done to narrow down but not totally solve a game. Reading behavior alone I don't feel can. It assumes that all town share the same normative behavior as town. You said people have reversed it. Who has? (Do not say so out loud). Are you townreading them or their team?

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:22 am

Sorry that post is a little pedantic but I was trying to be as clear as possible.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:42 am

@Ffery, Ok. I think I misunderstoid you. 1257 implied a universal process to me.

I am out for the next 12-13 hours at best. Please let your teams know as well.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:02 pm

@TSO, Cut the bull. Mafia isn't democratic. Teammates are advisors, but you make the call in any game. If a majority of your team told you to play anti-wincon for no purpose, you wouldn't do it. So don't try to sell me this democratic shit.

The vagueness on UT is a problem. It looks like general doubtcasting of Tammy's choices.

@All, We all agreed to use the conftown's votes for baning, why is it so fucking hard to get a bane.

I'm back early from DnD and I'm utterly annoyed by this.

@Bulba, we need to get on the same page. Stat. I feel as if we are reading two separate games sometimes.

Titus · Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:04 pm

@Bulba, I'm not yelling at you by saying we need to get on the same page. :S