Newbie 630! Game Over!

[geraintm]

Strife, i can see what you are doing, trying to get the game moving, i think you are reaching maybe, but thanks

ashmite & Coug - my, you two are quick to jump on a wagon. real quick like...

i seem to be spending the whole game telling people i don't like what they are doing

[ashmite84]

Like my Post 97 says, I think we need a wagon,

any

wagon for this game to progress.

[geraintm]

ash, you are advocating any wagon, just to see who gets on and off it, and you don't care where the driver is going??

fos ashmite

[geraintm]

heck , why am i just fosing,

vote ashmite

[ashmite84]

ash, you are advocating any wagon, just to see who gets on and off it, and you don't care where the driver is going??

fos ashmite

Not really to see who the wagoners are, I couldn't really accuse them since I called for the wagon. More to get discussion going. If one of them

hammered

however, that would be a different story. I don't even car if the first wagon is

me

. You have to start somewhere.

[ashmite84]

EBWOP: *care

[Deffie]

I apologize for the absence, I slept over at a friend's place and had limited internet access. I used it to ask myself to be removed from the "willing to replace" list in the newbie queue, when I should have used it to inform you guys for my short absence. I didn't think it would be that big a deal since others have been inactive for longer periods of time than I have been, but I guess it figures that since I've actually been somewhat active here my sudden silence could be taken the wrong way. Again I'm sorry for disappearing on you.

Everyone mistaking me for scum doesn't really come to me as a surprise, I was hoping it wouldn't happen but I sorta knew that the way I play could be taken the wrong way. I'm experimenting with trying to find my playing style, and the result is me swaying a lot. I didn't realize I came across

that

wishy-washy but your accusations are fair enough. I haven't made one serious vote and that is because I'm too careful and cautious, when apparently I should be aggressive.

Now, to address some of strife's accusations...

Post 4 and 5 have some content - advising people to get avatars, and letting people know that they were 'random-wagon'ing Ashmite. Suspicious in itself because she didn't FOS or Vote or even scold the people who were wagoning

I didn't FOS or vote because I didn't think the mini-bandwagon or suspicious or scummy but brushed it off as newbies being careless newbies. I already explained that it was not meant to be an accusation, just a general warning, and my intention wasn't to point fingers at anyone involved, just to give a quick heads up. There was no scolding because I thought my warning was enough and I didn't want to attack anyone personally for a simple mistake.

Post 6 also has content. Defending here actions of defending defending ashmite, and making unreasonable claims that she's not support the Ashmite or Ty wagon because they are at risk of getting quick-lynched. Unreasonable defending here, given that neither of them seemed to be in real risk of getting lynched.

You're underestimating the power of bandwagoning in a small game, things can get out of hand really quickly and the next thing you know you have a dead pro-townie power role in your hands just because someone voted them for a small slip-up and everyone else immediately followed suite before the poor player even got a chance to open his mouth. I may be too cautious, but that's all I am. Too cautious.

Post 9 she voices suspicion of Geraintm, saying he made a small contradiction about his statement on voting habits. No FOS, no Vote

That post was a bit of unnecessary I guess. I was trying to get the game moving and I couldn't think of anyone else to bring up since everyone is so damn vague, so I raised some conversation about geraintm. I guess it is the most loud players who get the axe first, isn't it? When it really should be the other way around. No FOS and vote, because, well... I guess I wasn't all that serious about geraintm. Sorry for the waste of space post that I just wrote up for the sake of writing up a post. Your accusations here are fair enough.

Post 10 (monday, jun 23) she makes a wishy-washy post about slow voting being both a good and a bad thing.

Pardon me for trying to separate a null-tell from a scum-tell. I just don't think it's any real indicator on a person's alignment. And I do think it's both a good thing and a bad thing, not everything in life (or mafia) is black and white.

[Deffie]

Like my Post 97 says, I think we need a wagon,

any

wagon for this game to progress.

Okay.

vote: ashmite84

There, I made a vote and jumped on a bandwagon. Am I a good townie now?

[ashmite84]

Like my Post 97 says, I think we need a wagon,

any

wagon for this game to progress.

Okay.

vote: ashmite84

There, I made a vote and jumped on a bandwagon. Am I a good townie now?

Hey! I said

a

wagon! Not two wagons! We lready have your one

[Deffie]

Hey! I said

a

wagon! Not two wagons! We lready have your one

This is democracy, baby.

[geraintm]

Not really to see who the wagoners are, I couldn't really accuse them since I called for the wagon. More to get discussion going. If one of them

hammered

however, that would be a different story. I don't even car if the first wagon is

me

. You have to start somewhere.

yeah, you seem to have got your wagon now
and really, looking at who hammers? that never works does it anymore??

[StrangerCoug]

That's L-2. Jumping the gun a little quick there Coug.

Sorry about that. Thought geraintm was Deffie.

[ashmite84]

Not really to see who the wagoners are, I couldn't really accuse them since I called for the wagon. More to get discussion going. If one of them

hammered

however, that would be a different story. I don't even car if the first wagon is

me

. You have to start somewhere.

yeah, you seem to have got your wagon now
and really, looking at who hammers? that never works does it anymore??

Ouch! I was just saying that I wouldn't particularly scrutinize the wagoners, since it's a pressure wagon.

[geraintm]

are you saying that so people don't look at you forming wagons?

[ashmite84]

are you saying that so people don't look at you forming wagons?

No. I said we need a wagon. You said I just want to see who jumps on-board. I said I'm more concerned with the reaction of the player being BW'd than those on the wagon. This was the case

initially

, though SC's hasty agreeability might be cause for concern. Also, Deffie raised a number of points which I agree with, and could be said of myself (regarding playstyle etc.) which makes me want to

unvote

for now. I'll specify what she said when I post next, I'm going to sleep.

[StrangerCoug]

It helps being able to count xD

I don't like her post #107, though, so I'll leave my vote alone until she defends it.

[Thok]

Official Vote Count! Oh no!

Deffie (2): (strife220, StrangerCoug)
ashmite84 (2): (geraintm, Deffie)

strife220 (1): (caffeinatedcows)
geraintm (1): (Yosarian2)

Ty (0):
caffeinatedcows (0):
StrangerCoug (0):
Yosarian2 (0):
omni (0):

Not voting (3): (Ty, omni, ashmite84)

[Deffie]

I don't like her post #107, though, so I'll leave my vote alone until she defends it.

Post #107 was me acting like an ass because I got fed up with people complaining about me not voting. This would be the part where my wise mentor tells me to watch my temper, if I had a wise mentor present that is. But I don't, so I'm just going to

unvote

and then

vote omni

.

Omni is giving off a scummy vibe to me, and I admit this is a bit of a gut feeling. It's just that he hasn't really contributed anything to the game. He did say he's away every Tuesday and Wednesday, but even taking that into consideration he's been really vague.

It's this post that raised my suspicions for him:

I can definitely see the conclusion there deffie

fos: geraintm

I wonder if he'll come and defend himself?

This was his response to my half-hearted attempt at sorta kinda pointing a finger at geraintm. Yosarian2 went along with it too, but I just feel like he based and discussed his views fairly well. Omni's post, on the other hand, reeks of a scum seeing an easy way to participate and just going with it. It's often hard for newbie scum to come up with false scum tells themselves so it's convenient to just go with the flow. On top of that, a FOS is always less responsibility than a full-blooded vote, and based on the accusations made against me, I'd say pretty much everyone here agrees that avoiding taking responsibility about lynches is typical for scum.

I kind of wish I hadn't intervened and that the bandwagon against me had gone on a little longer so I could've seen omni's reactions to it as well, but I thought I was at L-1 (I started writing my post after I saw StrangerCoug's "claim or die" threat and didn't notice the new posts until after I'd submitted mine) and self-preservation won over tedious observation.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, this is a rather confusing bunch of people we have here. I can't count, keep track of what votes are where, or take into account who's inactive when and why; ashmite84 seems to be on the wishy-washy side and doesn't care about wagons; it took omni some willpower to get rid of his random vote; geraintm is in and of himself confusing and has been accused of a "preemptive meta defense" by Yosarian2; and so on, and so forth.

While it's on my mind, though,

Mod: Please prod caffeinatedcows.

She's made a grand total of four posts in this game (five if you count her confirmation post), and her most recent post was on Tuesday, almost 72 hours ago.

[strife220]

Well, this is a rather confusing bunch of people we have here. I can't count, keep track of what votes are where, or take into account who's inactive when and why; ashmite84 seems to be on the wishy-washy side and doesn't care about wagons; it took omni some willpower to get rid of his random vote; geraintm is in and of himself confusing and has been accused of a "preemptive meta defense" by Yosarian2; and so on, and so forth.

While it's on my mind, though,

Mod: Please prod caffeinatedcows.

She's made a grand total of four posts in this game (five if you count her confirmation post), and her most recent post was on Tuesday, almost 72 hours ago.

Yosarian hasn't posted since the last time CaffeinatedCows has either. Actually, caffeinatedcows hasn't posted anywhere on the site since last tuesday, while Yosarian is posting very frequently elsewhere. Much more interesting, I would say. Any pro-town reason for your lurking, yosarian? Your vote is still on Geraintm: Do you think he's still the most likely to be scum? What are your thoughts on what Deffie excuses as her natural playstyle?

[StrangerCoug]

Very well then.

Mod: Please prod Yosarian2 as well.

[Thok]

Prodding caffeinatedcows and Yosarian2. Hunting for a replacement for Ty.

[caffeinatedcows]

Sorry, it's summer and I lose track of time when I don't have school. And then I didn't have internet for a couple of days because our router broke. And my father commandeered the internet because he has to do that thing that earns him the monies.

I also didn't post because I don't like saying things when I don't have anything to say. Really, I"m rather in a confused state with all these fingers pointing in different directions. I can see the reasoning in starting a wagon because it moves things along. Accusations can fly, but nothing is definitive until someone gets the ax. But I'm also suspicious of the people who started the wagons because that's definitely something the mafia want.

Now, I'm also suspicious of the person who's been talking a lot but has not been pointed to as possible mafia: StrangerCoug. Is it because he has been rather innocuous? Could his innocuousness be a sign of mafia? The point of the mafia right now is to lay low until night so they can go do some work. If the scum are really good, they'd walk the perfect line between talking enough to simulate participation, but not talking too much to lay suspicion.

It's not his cautiousness, because that's understandable this early into the game, but it's the content of his votes. They tend to be sparse and devoid of his own opinions. He tends to either agree to varying degrees with other people, sometimes refuting, but mostly agreeing and summarizing the situation. And there's the bits where he is being a helpful member of society, but that I write off as this being a newbie game where being a helpful member of society is part of the job description for the more experienced players.

You know in Leave It to Beaver, where the older brother's best friend seems to be the perfect kid with the best grades and is always on the best behavior? And how he's really a conniving bastard filled with mischief and spit? This could totally be the case.

Or this could just be my attempt to make sure everyone gets a little piece of the suspicion pie. (Next, I want someone to write a dissertation on why I am scum.)

[caffeinatedcows]

EBWOP: I said the older brother's best friend was filled with "mischief and spit," I meant spite. He might be filled with spit, too, as a human being, but I wanted to point out the whole spite thing. I am not interested in his saliva, really.

[ashmite84]

As I mentioned, Deffie said some things in post 106 in defence of herself that rang true of myself, hence my unvoting. 2 points stand out. The first about experimenting with her playstyle. In my first newbie game, I was very nearly lynched day 1 because of my vocal and aggressive playstyle (I was town). This led to most of the day being a massive back and forth argument between me and another player (who also turned out to be town), him accusing me profusely, me steadfastly maintaining that there are more playstyles than just his accepted one. This distracted from scumhunting and as I said, the scum won. So I changed to a less aggressive style, realizing that though I may be town, it matters more how you come off to other players.

The second point was the one about the most vocal being scrutinized for this very reason. I don't agree with this at all and am quite a vocal player myself. Again, this was heavily scrutinized in my other game. I failed to see how posting often was a scumtell and the scum used it against me. Too vocal? Bah!

Therefore I'm inclined to lay off of Deffie for now.